third culture kids

[Euro]

so as many of you may or may not know, i am what apparently is now called a "third culture kid". i'm sure there are at least a handful if not more of you on this board.

what is a third culture kid?

“A third culture kid is a person who has spent a significant part of his or her developmental years outside their parents’ culture."

the other night, my roommate, who's an associate producer on a comedy central TV show and has worked on documentaries, and i were discussing this idea i had for a documentary on third culture kids. basically what i was envisioning was to take a snapshot of about 3 months in the life of 4 different tck familes at current life stages.

ie, american family one would center around a 5 and 7 year old pair of siblings and their young parents and how living abroad has affected their family and children's development. film them for three months.

then take an american family with a 15 year old living in europe or china or something

then focus on a kid in college

then someone who's like 25 and living on their own... where did being a tck lead them? did they continue to live abroad or did they do like many and move to one place and stay there for ever?

so in doing some research i found this website called www.tckid.com which is really awesome due to how informative (and amazingly precise) it is. it really shed some light on my own life and experiences by making me feel that i'm not alone (which after a while can be what happens as you begin to meet fewer and fewer people with backgrounds like yours and you start to feel this sort of disconnect).

according to tckid.com you know you're a third culture kid when...


- “Where are you from?” has more than one reasonable answer.(true)
- You’ve said that you’re from foreign country X, and (if you live in America) your audience has asked you which US state X is in. (when i moved to seattle i'd be like "i'm from belgium" and everyone would say "is that east coast?" or "isn't that in germany?")
- You flew before you could walk. (true)
- You speak two languages, but can’t spell in either. (french and russian)
- You feel odd being in the ethnic majority. (not anymore)
- You have three passports. (only two, regular & diplomatic)
- You have a passport but no driver’s license. (until i was 20 yeah)
- You go into culture shock upon returning to your “home” country. (definitely after i got back from england)
- Your life story uses the phrase “Then we moved to…” three (or four, or five…) times. (for like eight times)
- You wince when people mispronounce foreign words. (i saw someone type out voila as "wala"... it killed me)
- You don’t know whether to write the date as day/month/year, month/day/year, or some variation thereof. (SO BLOODY CONFUSING!!!)
- The best word for something is the word you learned first, regardless of the language. (KACEECHKA! i don't even know what it's called in english but i've seen them at donut places)
- You get confused because US money isn’t colour-coded. (i actually like us money)
- You think VISA is a document that’s stamped in your passport, not a plastic card you carry in your wallet. (until i was like 13 yeah)
- You own personal appliances with 3 types of plugs, know the difference between 110 and 220 volts, 50 and 60 cycle current, and realize that a trasnsformer isn’t always enough to make your appliances work. (i'm a pro)
- You fried a number of appliances during the learning process. (lollercopters! i fried the vcr when i was 7)
- You think the Pledge of Allegiance might possibly begin with “Four-score and seven years ago….” (i don't know about that one... kind of insulting)
- Half of your phone calls are unintelligible to those around you. (my non american friends phone calls were)
- You believe vehemently that football is played with a round, spotted ball. (no, my parents raised me well on the nfl ;) )
- You consider a city 500 miles away “very close.” (yep)
- You get homesick reading National Geographic. (no)
- You cruise the Internet looking for fonts that can support foreign alphabets. (i have them all)
- You think in the metric system and Celsius. (i think in both)
- You may have learned to think in feet and miles as well, after a few years of living (and driving) in the US. (But not Fahrenheit. You will *never* learn to think in Fahrenheit). (i use fahrenheit)
- You haggle with the checkout clerk for a lower price. (only in egypt and some places in europe... sometimes at 7eleven)
- Your minor is a foreign language you already speak. (my 1 year language requirement was)
- When asked a question in a certain language, you’ve absentmindedly respond in a different one. (it's happened... especially in french conversations cause i'll accidentally say something in russian and vice versa)
- You miss the subtitles when you see the latest movie. (not so much)
- You’ve gotten out of school because of monsoons, bomb threats, and/or popular demonstrations. (all of the above!)
- You speak with authority on the subject of airline travel. (yet people still don't bother to listen)
- You have frequent flyer accounts on multiple airlines. (virgin is my new favorite)
- You constantly want to use said frequent flyer accounts to travel to new places. (i used to then i just started saving again... flying business class at 13 cause of frequent flyer miles FTW!!!)
- You know how to pack. (efficiently and quickly... == 20 minutes before i head out the door)
- You have the urge to move to a new country every couple of years. (word... why else did i go to england?)
- The thought of sending your (hypothetical) kids to public school scares you, while the thought of letting them fly alone doesn’t at all. (i would never send my kids to public school)
- You think that high school reunions are all but impossible. (well, i used to but in this day and age...)
- You have friends from 29 different countries. (more)
- You sort your friends by continent. (in my cell phone yeah)
- You have a time zone map next to your telephone. (on my iphone)
- You realize what a small world it is, after all. (definitely)

[Euro]

what are the different types of tck's?

Military/ARMY BRATS

Military brats, primarily from the United States, are the most mobile of TCKs but generally spend only a few years abroad, and sometimes none at all. Approximately 41% of military brats spend less than 5 years in foreign countries. They are the least likely TCKs to develop connections with the locals. Because military bases aim for self-sufficiency, military brats tend to be exposed the least to the local culture. Also, because of the self-sufficiency of military bases and the distinctiveness of military culture, even those military brats who never lived abroad can be isolated to some degree from the civilian culture of their "home" country.

While parents of military brats had the lowest level of education of the five categories, approximately 36% of USA military brat TCK families have at least one parent with an advanced degree. This is significantly higher than the general population.

Non-military government

Nonmilitary government TCKs are the most likely to have extended experiences in foreign countries for extended periods. 44% have lived in at least four countries. 44% will also have spent at least 10 years outside of their passport country. Their involvement with locals and others from their passport country depends on the role of the parent. Some may grow up moving from country to country in the diplomatic corps while others may live their lives near military bases.

Religious / Missionary Kids

Missionary Kids (MKs) typically spend the most time overseas in one country. 85% of MKs spend more than 10 years in foreign countries and 72% lived in only one foreign country. MKs generally have the most interaction with the local populace and the least interaction with people from their passport country. They are the most likely to integrate themselves into the local culture. 83% of missionary kids have at least one parent with an advanced degree.

Business kids

Business families also spend a great deal of time in foreign countries. 63% of business TCK's have lived in foreign countries at least 10 years but are more likely than MKs to live in multiple countries. Business TCKs will have a fairly high interaction with their host nationals and with others from their passport country.

Other

The "Other" category includes anybody who does not fit one the above descriptions. They include: intergovernmental agencies, educators, international non-governmental organizations, media, etc. This group typically has spent the least amount of time in foreign countries (42% are abroad for 1-2 years and 70% for less than 5.) Again their involvement with local people and culture can vary greatly. The parents of "Others" are the most likely of TCKs to have parents with an advanced degree (89% of families have an advanced degree.)


what are the characteristics of a tck?



* TCKs are 4 times as likely as non-TCKs to earn a bachelor's degree (81% vs 21%)
* 40% earn an advanced degree (as compared to 5% of the non-TCK population.)
* 45% of TCKs attended 3 universities before earning a degree.
* 44% earned undergraduate degree after the age of 22.
* Educators, medicine, professional positions, and self employment are the most common professions for TCKs.
* TCKs are unlikely to work for big business, government, or follow their parents' career choices. "One won't find many TCKs in large corporations. Nor are there many in government ... they have not followed in parental footsteps".
* 90% feel "out of sync" with their peers.
* 90% report feeling as if they understand other cultures/peoples better than the average American.
* 80% believe they can get along with anybody.
* Divorce rates among TCKs are lower than the general population, but they marry older (25+).
o Military brats, however, tend to marry earlier.
* Linguistically adept (not as true for military ATCKs.)
o A study whose subjects were all "career military brats"—those who had a parent in the military from birth through high school—shows that brats are linguistically adept.
* Teenage TCKs are more mature than non-TCKs, but ironically take longer to "grow up" in their 20s.
* More welcoming of others into their community.
* Lack a sense of "where home is" but often nationalistic.
* Some studies show a desire to "settle down" others a "restlessness to move".
* Depression and suicide are more prominent among TCK's.


i fall into:

Non-military government

Nonmilitary government TCKs are the most likely to have extended experiences in foreign countries for extended periods. 44% have lived in at least four countries. 44% will also have spent at least 10 years outside of their passport country. Their involvement with locals and others from their passport country depends on the role of the parent. Some may grow up moving from country to country in the diplomatic corps while others may live their lives near military bases.


i'll admit i've pretty much assimilated now (7 years after i moved back to the US). but to those who knew me "back in the day", remember when i didn't understand fahrenheit and my temp in my car was celcius?

or anyone who's ridden in my canadian minivan with km/h bigger than mp/h?

lol we crazy!

[Kosmicdog]

Originally posted by Euro

the other night, my roommate, who's an associate producer on a comedy central TV show

No way, can he introduce me to Cartman?!

[Euro]

an example of a tckid everyone knows is barack obama.

http://www.tckid.com/group/obama-the-tck/


Originally posted by Kosmicdog
No way, can he introduce me to Cartman?!

sadly not that comedy central show. one that's more of a "gonna be off the air after one season" types.

[fuerve]

Originally posted by Euro
sadly not that comedy central show. one that's more of a "gonna be off the air after one season" types.

Well that was a pretty conspicuous nod to the profile of your buddy's job, considering that this thread isn't about him.

[Euro]

it was meant to highlight his credibility.

and his profile isn't high, it's an associate producer position which is pretty much one step up from production assistant (entry level), on a show that's probably not gonna make it past season 1.

regardless, it's not the point of this post.

[fuerve]

So in all seriousness:

How do you feel you and other similarly raised kids fare in the world? I wouldn't mind, say, taking a job in another country or something someday, and I'm interested in hearing some anecdotal reports of how successful/competetive kids are who are raised with that kind of cultural breadth. I imagine it's a pretty good leg up in a lot of ways.

[Kohei]

Word to being a non-gov TCK haha. But then again, my parents aren't from the same country either so "third culture" doesn't cut it.

Working my ass off at school so I can grab a job that lets me move lots again. Used to zip around every year or two, really miss the feeling of constant stimulation. Not going to walk outside and find things immediately exciting here...although the air is immaculate.

[Euro]

yes it is, but there's also a psychological toll in terms of developing a self identity. you never quite feel like you belong anywhere... lack of a sense of "home". you'll note at the bottom there's a high rate of suicide & depression which i don't disbelieve.

the leg up comes from the fact that obviously you've seen more of the world than someone who has never really left their state (or city for that matter). so immediately there's an interest (in terms of job prospects) because you stand out. same thing with getting into college. third culture kids typically get a top notch education, as it's paid for by the employer as a perk of living there. my HS was like $35k/year but my parents didn't pay a penny of it. most international schools are quite expensive.

however, the sacrifice is living x number of years in a fashion a lot of kids probably wouldn't want to live if given the choice (ie you have no idea how much it sucked to live in uzbekistan for two years at 14/15 years of age... i would have rather been in prison, i felt like i was). i remember hating moving around so much that i begged my parents to send me to boarding school in new jersey so i could "live in america" and be "normal".

of course when i got to boarding school i went through such culture shock that became severly depressed and flunked out. i didn't "fit in" with anybody cause i didn't know what the culture really was like. i got picked on all the time pretty much for being clueless. it's jolting going from international communities as a child where everyone was very accepting and everyone was, by definition, different to a place like a US prep school where everyone's the same and at that age, not very well versed in "different".

there are some people i know who refuse to come back here. they feel more at home living abroad than they do in america so they just do whatever they can to stay.

my friend from high school vanessa is still living in belgium. she moved there from san francisco in 1999 for her sophmore year of HS and married my friend michiel (hs sweethearts) who's dutch and now they have a baby and no intentions of coming back to america.

others, kind of like me, moved somewhere (ie new york, boston, toronto) and have been there for several years. i lived in seattle for six years which is the longest (x2) i've ever lived in any one place. part of the reason i left is because that freaked me out.

[Kohei]

Originally posted by fuerve
So in all seriousness:

How do you feel you and other similarly raised kids fare in the world? I wouldn't mind, say, taking a job in another country or something someday, and I'm interested in hearing some anecdotal reports of how successful/competetive kids are who are raised with that kind of cultural breadth. I imagine it's a pretty good leg up in a lot of ways.

The constant moving from school to school was pretty tough growing up, but I feel that after seeing how different people live out their lives, I've got a better sense of what's important and how flexible people really are.

As for a lot of other kids in similar situations, their experiences can really vary since you're putting a lot of different people in one box...Like a lot of the kids who live in company towns in the Middle East grow up in these small walled communities with their own schools, so you can imagine the pluses and minuses that come with knowing the same 10 kids your whole life before suddenly getting booted into a posh boarding school.

On the other side of the coin you've got kids who live in big cities with private international schools, so the huge student body is half English speaking rich locals...

[Kohei]

Originally posted by Euro
i didn't "fit in" with anybody

I always chalked that up to the idea that there are always a few chill people who "get it" while the vast majority reject what doesn't fit into their narrow framework.

[KidKaBoom]

I didn't know there was a adopted term associated with the way I was raised, very educational... This 'Third culture kid' thing... I thought I was just a confused lost soul with no identity.

“Where are you from?” has more than one reasonable answer.(true)
- You’ve said that you’re from foreign country X, and (if you live in America) your audience has asked you which US state X is in. (When I moved from Italy to Japan, I was an Asian Italian, from Japan to America, a Japanese American. When I'm really a Scottish/Irish Korean)
- You flew before you could walk. (yes)
- You speak two languages, but can’t spell in either. (Japanese, Korean and English- I only know a few Korean phrases and definitely can't read the shit)
- You feel odd being in the ethnic majority. (uh, no)
- You have three passports. (use to, Military took one away when I turned 24.)
- You have a passport but no driver’s license. (until i was 18 yeah)
- You go into culture shock upon returning to your “home” country. (I love culture shock!- It makes the world feel so BIG!)
- Your life story uses the phrase “Then we moved to…” (at least twenty times)
- You wince when people mispronounce foreign words. (m3h, not really everyone has a learning curve, I think its funny)
- You don’t know whether to write the date as day/month/year, month/day/year, or some variation thereof. (I'm still confused...)
- You get confused because US money isn’t colour-coded. (Its not that its not 'colored' Its all the same size, with fewer coins then most other countries)
- You fried a number of appliances during the learning process. (My game gear when we moved to Turkey.... QQ)
- Half of your phone calls are unintelligible to those around you. (I just now got a phone that is equivalent to the phone one of my friends used while I was going to High School in Japan around 01'.)
- You consider a city 500 miles away “very close.” (well, its close)
- When asked a question in a certain language, you’ve absentmindedly respond in a different one. (One of my favorite games!)
- You’ve gotten out of school because of monsoons, bomb threats, and/or popular demonstrations. (WEEEE! Unexploded Ordnance warnings... aka civil unrest being settled with RPG's and a game 'hot' grenade')
- You speak with authority on the subject of airline travel. (I flew Space Available and on military planes more times then I'd like to admit)
- You have the urge to move to a new country every couple of years. (Try 3+ times a year, fuck that, I'm done, Military gave me more then I could chew for a while) Vacationing! Thats different.
- You have friends from 29 different countries. (I don't even know, and or care anymore)
- You sort your friends by continent. (I use skype- when country code is different)
- You realize what a small world it is, after all. (and flat right??)

[Khaotix]

i had a girlfriend who was a tck... personality wise, she was pretty fucking weird

[More Wise]

i like the phrase, "world citizen"