Nectar @ the 24ten 5.23.09 [pdx]

[What Up Mahvi]

This Party Was AWESOME!

Great to see all the fine ladies spinnin... I can't say I have a favorite: I LOVE YOU ALL!

It was COOL that j.philip came back!!! Remember @ 'Dirty Bird PDX (the X-Mas Party), When J was the last DJ to spin @ like 7am!!! The place was rockin'

Also, it was great to see Emilia (DJ Kassette), Tracy (MissVixen), Forest... of course! Luna Lena's set was excellent! Miss Margo was bangin' and on point. INTENSITY.

I'm sorry that I still havent met the Perfect Cyn or Mena 'in Person' (yet, we're friends online)
SOMEDAY I'll see you perfom... and I'll introduce myself!

Oh, yeah! I finally got to meet Maria!
Thank You SO MUCH for all that you and your excellent crew do for our enjoyment.

*I took about an hour of video...

Playlist on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29vD6QuL_nA&feature=PlayList&p=9ECDA3B8CA25567C&index=0&playnext=1

HuGGz,

MAHVi

:^ )

[Mi'ka]

Thanks for having me out guys! The space looked amazing. A lot of hard work went into decorating that space. I can't even imagine the man hours hanging the fabrics. The visuals were smokin' as always. Kevokivision is always a nice touch to these events. Good job all!

I didn't catch everyone's set, but from what I did catch they were rockin. I caught a little of Zita, Vixen, Mena, J. Phlip of course and 31 Avas. And OH MAN, Forest was throwing DOWN in the 18+ area! Oh, It was also nice to chat with you Alison, great meeting you. :)

Thanks again for the fun times and the hard work Latenight, Kaos, Fubar and Anonymous!

[~MiSs ViXeN~]

oh man.. what a crazy weekend! Will write a proper review later tonight... :D

[Ewan]

Definitely a broad spectrum of talent at this event.

I have to say I enjoyed 31avas the most as she always brings the deep dark intelligent techno that I so love.

I was expecting something a little more dynamic from J.Philp although I had not seen her before, and for the most part she didn't have much of a dance floor to work with IMO, so maybe that flattened her energy some.

The 18+ room was packed though. I guess a lot of the older crowd were out of town (or at DEMF) for the long weekend, maybe? Many people I know were conspicuously absent.

Forest played a much different style than I expected -- I had previously only seen her play at 21+ events in SF (where the age of the average attendee was probably more like 30) so I didn't really know what to make of the harder NRG-type stuff, although her mixing was solid of course. Both Forest and Vixen definitely were killing it in the 18+ room, playing well to the crowd, although they didn't play the more laid-back, trippy style of music I prefer... ...just hard peak-time stuff (which certainly has its place too, don't get me wrong).

Production value was fantastic, the sound was good (maybe could have been louder in the main room). I have to say with all the red fabric on the walls, it felt like being inside a giant vagina, sort of... :p

Anyway, I'm glad I made it out, in spite of my initial reservations regarding the gyno-centric* orientation of the lineup.

*I don't mean that in an anti-woman sense, I just feel there are a lot of equally qualified male DJs who probably don't need to be excluded on the basis of their genitalia.

[theperfectcyn]

still reeling from this partyyy!! thanks so much for all the crews involved for all their hard work, and for having me on the lineup! i wanted to do PDX proper - for all PDX has done for me over the years :) i caught a bit of XL right when I got to the party ... then cruised over to hear MIKA KILLING it in the main room! Way to go girl! J Phlip set was perky fun esp. when she dropped one of my fave tracks of all time, Freaky Bitches by Andrea Parker (lets get her back out here huh??) .. dj godfather remix. Man that track is DOPE!!! Thought the sound could've been louder when she played. Ava always delivers the sickness as well, and did Sat as usual. Was a pleasure to follow her up. And great to meet Miss Margo, loved her set! She def brought it all home proper. I was bummed I didn't hear Cozmix Vixen or Forest Green this time around - better luck next time i hope :) Get ready for the epic summa people! It's here!!! What recession?? Time to have fun ALL DAY!

[L8NITE_RENEGADE]

Thanks everyone for making this an awesome event!!! So much amazing talent in one room!!!! great work everyone with Latenight Renegades, Fubar, Anonymous-i, and everyone else who helped out in between!!!

All the girls rocked it!!!! Thanks to all those who supported this event... and to those who were boycotting the event for some stupid reason (and you know who you are) think about the people that support you like your friends then think and realize you were really only boycotting your friends...

So everybody hold on tight Fire is just around the corner!!!!

EPIC SUMMA!!!!!

[George Holland]

Thanks to all those who supported this event... and to those who were boycotting the event for some stupid reason (and you know who you are) think about the people that support you like your friends then think and realize you were really only boycotting your friends...


Well this is obviously directed at me, so if you want to publicly complain about my opinion, I am happy to respond w/ a public reply.

There are 2 main points I want to hit:

1. Your questioning of my support for my friends
2. My reasoning for not attending this party being "stupid"

1. Support

I'm appalled that you can even begin to attempt to question the support I show for DJs and promoters in this town, including the ones on this lineup. Here are some facts:

* I am at Kulturszene every month, Jeff. I rarely see you there. I am there to see Ava and I let her know after every one how much I enjoyed her sets.
* I was at the Kulturszene showcase at Decibel Festival. Didn't see you there.
* I was at the Fubar that featured Mi'ka to support her. Didn't see you there.
* Mena was in the same DJ collective with me years ago (Picture of Sound). I have always enjoyed her sets.
* Forest Green and I have been good friends for 10 years now. I went to see her countless times when I lived in SF and also shared plenty of gigs with her.
* I have been a huge fan of Cynthia ever since we played Virus together at Conan's in 2001 or 2002. In fact, one of her posts on this board was a huge inspiration to me when I was thinking of getting back into DJing and helped cement my reasons for sticking with vinyl http://nwtekno.org/showthread.php?p=2000482#post2000482 (And yes, I have told her what it meant to me)
* Obviously my support for Tracy doesn't need to be justified either, as we are both SubSensory DJs. I have come out to see her play untold amounts of times and have stood out on the dancefloor bobbin' my head even when it's been completely dead.

Also, please note: It would be pretty easy for me to get on the guestlist for pretty much anything I want to go to in Portland. The fact of the matter is I pay full door price every time. Why? Because I know shows cost money, and I choose to support the DJs who support me. Every Kulturszene I go to, I pay. Every Fubar I go to, I pay. I paid at the door to get into PDX'n'KONTROL. I paid full door price for Ryan Elliott at Pala, and then I went and paid full door price for Claude VonStroke afterwards. I have also never asked for guest list for anything by Anonymous-i. I paid at the door for Derrick Carter, Mark Farina ( both times ), Ellen Allien, etc.

On top of that, for shows that I personally am playing, I always use my guest list spots on those that are truly broke and need financial help to go to a show they want to attend. The friends of mine who are not hurting for cash don't get my spots, because they have the ability to go and support these shows, and I feel that they should.

Also, I have insisted to take less payout than promised for shows you yourself have thrown because I appreciate your hard work and want to help support techno in this town.

So, please. Don't give me this "I'm not supporting my friends who support me" bullshit. It's not gonna fly. I am more appreciative and show more real gratitude to my friends and supporters in this town than a lot of people.

2. Reasoning

Before I get into all this, I want to make something utterly crystal clear. For the reasons I am stating below, I QUIETLY chose not to attend this event. Out of respect for my friends who threw the show, and my friends who were playing the show, and my friends who were going to the show, I kept this to myself so as not to harm everyone else's good time. This opinion is mine and mine only. Someone asked me if I was coming out, and I replied honestly, in a private IM. That person, who disagrees with my opinion, then took it upon herself to spread it around make sure everyone else was aware. If I didn't respect and support my friends and colleagues, I could have very easily written tons of shit on the event thread, or on twitter, etc badmouthing it and calling it out. But I didn't. I knew people were excited for the show, and that is A-OK. I wanted them to have fun if that's what they wanted to do. My opinion is not law, and I have better things to do than to go around trying to change people's minds.

So, my reasoning for not going is pretty simple. I don't care for events in which the first criteria for the lineup is someone's gender. For one thing, I think it's obviously sexist. And for another thing, the "girl party" theme has been done time and time again and is so tired. I really thought we were past this kind of thing, especially in the minimal/techno/tech-house subculture.

But the main point is obviously the sexism.

If you threw a party called "Fear Of A Black Planet" and it only featured black DJs, I would boycott that.

If you threw a party called "Far East Funk" and only featured asian DJs, I would boycott that.

If you threw a party called "Testosterone" and it was advertised and marketed as a male-only party, I would skip that too.

I just feel that in this day and age, the focus of an event should be based around the quality of the music, regardless of who is playing it. A great example would be the first time I ever saw house legend Paul Johnson play at Stompy in SF years ago. I had been buying Paul's records on Relief, Cajual and Dance Mania for years and it was a lifelong dream to see him play. When it came time for his set, I was blown away to see him rolling up in a wheelchair to the turntables. I had no idea he was disabled. You know why I didn't know, even though I'd been a fan of his records and mixes for years? I didn't know because it DIDNT MATTER and no one talked about it. The only subject that ever came up around Paul Johnson was how fucking good his music was and the rest was irrelevant. That's how I feel female DJs should be treated. Gender should have nothing to do with it.

Don't get me wrong, I think a theme to an event is fine. Obviously some sort of slant to a show can be a fun way to put a new twist on a warehouse party. That is fine. I just feel like factors that are unchangeable such as gender/race/etc are off limits and in poor taste.

In addition, if I was a female DJ, I would not take a gig at an event like this for the reasons stated above. I wouldn't want to be labeled a "good female DJ." I would want to be known as a "good DJ." The only thing that matters is if someone can walk up to the decks and rock it. I support good DJs, no matter how they were born.

Also, a counter argument I hear sometimes is that "This kind of party is a chance for female DJs to finally get some spotlight in such a male dominated DJ culture!" To that, I say bullshit. If anything, female DJs get more gigs than males, regardless of talent, because meatheads like to book them, thinking it helps "keep the club sexy" and "gives the guys something to drool over" I have seen TONS of female DJs getting slots that are a motherfucking nightmare on the decks. Trainwrecks after trainwrecks, unmatched phrases, complete lack of flow, unimaginative and molasses-slow mixing, you name it. And that's not even counting the Spun graduates! :) So yeah, there are a ton of great male DJs in town who lose slots to less talented, yet more "attractive" female DJs all the time.




So, having said all that, let me summarize. Jeff ( and Mike ): I like you guys. You have thrown some amazing parties and without your hard work and dedication in Portland, techno would not have anywhere near the recent exposure and presence that it has now. Your hearts are in the right place and you take care of business and your people, even when you are losing money. Obviously I am and will continue to be extremely grateful for the times you have booked me. This post has been written with an underlying tone of respect and maturity, but if you continue to take offense to my personal opinion, and I am no longer on your list of candidates for DJ slots, so be it. I'm not going to lose sleep over it. It is my wish however, that by explaining myself, you will see that my reasons are not stupid and have been honed and refined over many many years in this scene.

This was one single party I chose not to attend for personal reasons that I kept to myself. Someone who I normally consider a good friend decided to turn it into a personal crusade and made this molehill into a mountain.



I just want it to be about the music before anything else.

[kizat]

I just want it to be about the music before anything else.

( . Y . )

Just saying...

[Ewan]

George, you have my support for boycotting this event. I nearly did so myself, and I have boycotted similar events in the past (there were quite common when I was in SF). I have also boycotted events that charge a different cover price depending on one's gender (it's always higher for men, sometimes more than twice as much) -- such events are common in Vegas and I have seen at least one in PDX, which I commented about on this board in fact.

I would have boycotted Nectar myself had I felt the talent level was not worth the cover charge, but in the end I felt like the DJ lineup was strong enough to warrant my interest regardless of the genitalia possessed by the talent. I'm not saying the lineup was incredibly strong top-to-bottom, but there were enough DJ's I genuinely wanted to see, so I went to see them.

(Keep in mind I don't personally know the promoters involved in this event.)

But in principle I def agree it IS a SEXIST theme for a party, and had the lineup been less appealing to me (and it was close, this was not an easy decision), I would have done exactly what you did.

One certainly takes a risk by pointing out misandry (hatred of men) and/or anti-male sexism in today's female-worshiping, politically correct society, but such discrimination certainly exists and there is no shortage of objective/scientific (and anecdotal) evidence attesting to the fact.

[milgramShock]

I have always agreed on the point of boycotting a party thrown based off gender. Its just in the past I have just done it a lot louder.... on this board.

If i was in town, i would have not gone for the same reasons, sorry... there are a bunch of great DJs you had there, and some I haven't heard in years.... I just don't support things like this. Party themes based off one specific un-equal opportunities such as this are sexist, creatively lazy and tired.

[quirky]

well said G Hizzle

[~MiSs ViXeN~]

It's all good you guys, I totally get where you're coming from. It's no biggie. On that subject I would say that this was by no means a "anti-man" event nor a "hey look sexy female djs" party.. the idea surfaced as a "hey, let's do something together as woman that reflects strong female power and talent." When I mentioned it to other dj's and women in general they seemed to light up from the idea. It's as if there's a certain unity that comes about and just a positive energy that emerged. It may not be something everyone understands unless you ARE a woman.


Anyways...


This party FUCKING ROCKED! Man oh man.. I was feelin it from everyone! GREAT music all night long AND AWESOME vibe. Venue looked gorgeous.. the night was perfectly beautiful and calm with a hint of.. really couldn't ask for anything better.

ALI CAT played out for the first time and despite distractions she threw the fuck down! Made to Play, holla! ;)

ZITA started out the 18+ up stage proper with hip cuts and layered vocals. One talented lady here!

MENA......rocks, What sick ass flawless house beats! Definitely got the groove goin..absolutely LOVED it.

KASSETTE aka DJXL. Um ya.. remember her?? She's the first girl DJ I ever saw (back in the day). She played some serious sick electro beats that the kids were lappin up!

MIKA threw it down! Heavy pumpin RAW techno music! Got the energy goin and everyone was ready to rave! Loved it!

J PHLIP rocked it dirtybird style! Didn't get to hear alot of her set, but what I did hear was sick.. love her style!

FOREST GREEN KILLED IT. It was straight up sweaty, drippy rave-music that even the 21 uppers couldn't resist bouncing around to. She rocks hard. What a great lady, and probably the nicest person you'll ever meet!

31AVAS is the fuckin shit and I love her. Ha! Was kinda bummed we had the same time slots but because of the push back I was able to catch the end. As always, BIG tracks that make me jealous everytime! ;) (thanks for the cd yo)

THE PERFECT CYN took a short hiatus and is back with a vengeance! Holy shit! She threw it down proper! I was so pleasantly surprised by the track selection and driving, weird sound that was unbelievable perfect for the time of night. GREAT stuff Cyn!

LENA LUNA closed down the 18+ plus with style and some sick ass breakbeats! Nice change up from the consistent 4/4 sounds!

For those who stayed towards the end know what's up. MISS MARGO fucking tore it up. Wow! What a way to end the party! Track after track of just pumpin, dirty, grindey figget house! It was actually impossible to stop dancing! Gotta see more Margo for sure!


BIG HUGE Thanks to everyone involved! Good times! :D

Oh and thanks soooo much to Ian from the couve who found my phone and took good care of it!! You rock dude! :)

~ Tracy


http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/67/l_54a5f3be231240cdb10609be4b78e84b.jpg

[IcebearBPM]

Well this is obviously directed at me, so if you want to publicly complain about my opinion, I am happy to respond w/ a public reply.

There are 2 main points I want to hit:

1. Your questioning of my support for my friends
2. My reasoning for not attending this party being "stupid"

1. Support

I'm appalled that you can even begin to attempt to question the support I show for DJs and promoters in this town, including the ones on this lineup. Here are some facts:

* I am at Kulturszene every month, Jeff. I rarely see you there. I am there to see Ava and I let her know after every one how much I enjoyed her sets.
* I was at the Kulturszene showcase at Decibel Festival. Didn't see you there.
* I was at the Fubar that featured Mi'ka to support her. Didn't see you there.
* Mena was in the same DJ collective with me years ago (Picture of Sound). I have always enjoyed her sets.
* Forest Green and I have been good friends for 10 years now. I went to see her countless times when I lived in SF and also shared plenty of gigs with her.
* I have been a huge fan of Cynthia ever since we played Virus together at Conan's in 2001 or 2002. In fact, one of her posts on this board was a huge inspiration to me when I was thinking of getting back into DJing and helped cement my reasons for sticking with vinyl http://nwtekno.org/showthread.php?p=2000482#post2000482 (And yes, I have told her what it meant to me)
* Obviously my support for Tracy doesn't need to be justified either, as we are both SubSensory DJs. I have come out to see her play untold amounts of times and have stood out on the dancefloor bobbin' my head even when it's been completely dead.

Also, please note: It would be pretty easy for me to get on the guestlist for pretty much anything I want to go to in Portland. The fact of the matter is I pay full door price every time. Why? Because I know shows cost money, and I choose to support the DJs who support me. Every Kulturszene I go to, I pay. Every Fubar I go to, I pay. I paid at the door to get into PDX'n'KONTROL. I paid full door price for Ryan Elliott at Pala, and then I went and paid full door price for Claude VonStroke afterwards. I have also never asked for guest list for anything by Anonymous-i. I paid at the door for Derrick Carter, Mark Farina ( both times ), Ellen Allien, etc.

On top of that, for shows that I personally am playing, I always use my guest list spots on those that are truly broke and need financial help to go to a show they want to attend. The friends of mine who are not hurting for cash don't get my spots, because they have the ability to go and support these shows, and I feel that they should.

Also, I have insisted to take less payout than promised for shows you yourself have thrown because I appreciate your hard work and want to help support techno in this town.

So, please. Don't give me this "I'm not supporting my friends who support me" bullshit. It's not gonna fly. I am more appreciative and show more real gratitude to my friends and supporters in this town than a lot of people.

2. Reasoning

Before I get into all this, I want to make something utterly crystal clear. For the reasons I am stating below, I QUIETLY chose not to attend this event. Out of respect for my friends who threw the show, and my friends who were playing the show, and my friends who were going to the show, I kept this to myself so as not to harm everyone else's good time. This opinion is mine and mine only. Someone asked me if I was coming out, and I replied honestly, in a private IM. That person, who disagrees with my opinion, then took it upon herself to spread it around make sure everyone else was aware. If I didn't respect and support my friends and colleagues, I could have very easily written tons of shit on the event thread, or on twitter, etc badmouthing it and calling it out. But I didn't. I knew people were excited for the show, and that is A-OK. I wanted them to have fun if that's what they wanted to do. My opinion is not law, and I have better things to do than to go around trying to change people's minds.

So, my reasoning for not going is pretty simple. I don't care for events in which the first criteria for the lineup is someone's gender. For one thing, I think it's obviously sexist. And for another thing, the "girl party" theme has been done time and time again and is so tired. I really thought we were past this kind of thing, especially in the minimal/techno/tech-house subculture.

But the main point is obviously the sexism.

If you threw a party called "Fear Of A Black Planet" and it only featured black DJs, I would boycott that.

If you threw a party called "Far East Funk" and only featured asian DJs, I would boycott that.

If you threw a party called "Testosterone" and it was advertised and marketed as a male-only party, I would skip that too.

I just feel that in this day and age, the focus of an event should be based around the quality of the music, regardless of who is playing it. A great example would be the first time I ever saw house legend Paul Johnson play at Stompy in SF years ago. I had been buying Paul's records on Relief, Cajual and Dance Mania for years and it was a lifelong dream to see him play. When it came time for his set, I was blown away to see him rolling up in a wheelchair to the turntables. I had no idea he was disabled. You know why I didn't know, even though I'd been a fan of his records and mixes for years? I didn't know because it DIDNT MATTER and no one talked about it. The only subject that ever came up around Paul Johnson was how fucking good his music was and the rest was irrelevant. That's how I feel female DJs should be treated. Gender should have nothing to do with it.

Don't get me wrong, I think a theme to an event is fine. Obviously some sort of slant to a show can be a fun way to put a new twist on a warehouse party. That is fine. I just feel like factors that are unchangeable such as gender/race/etc are off limits and in poor taste.

In addition, if I was a female DJ, I would not take a gig at an event like this for the reasons stated above. I wouldn't want to be labeled a "good female DJ." I would want to be known as a "good DJ." The only thing that matters is if someone can walk up to the decks and rock it. I support good DJs, no matter how they were born.

Also, a counter argument I hear sometimes is that "This kind of party is a chance for female DJs to finally get some spotlight in such a male dominated DJ culture!" To that, I say bullshit. If anything, female DJs get more gigs than males, regardless of talent, because meatheads like to book them, thinking it helps "keep the club sexy" and "gives the guys something to drool over" I have seen TONS of female DJs getting slots that are a motherfucking nightmare on the decks. Trainwrecks after trainwrecks, unmatched phrases, complete lack of flow, unimaginative and molasses-slow mixing, you name it. And that's not even counting the Spun graduates! :) So yeah, there are a ton of great male DJs in town who lose slots to less talented, yet more "attractive" female DJs all the time.




So, having said all that, let me summarize. Jeff ( and Mike ): I like you guys. You have thrown some amazing parties and without your hard work and dedication in Portland, techno would not have anywhere near the recent exposure and presence that it has now. Your hearts are in the right place and you take care of business and your people, even when you are losing money. Obviously I am and will continue to be extremely grateful for the times you have booked me. This post has been written with an underlying tone of respect and maturity, but if you continue to take offense to my personal opinion, and I am no longer on your list of candidates for DJ slots, so be it. I'm not going to lose sleep over it. It is my wish however, that by explaining myself, you will see that my reasons are not stupid and have been honed and refined over many many years in this scene.

This was one single party I chose not to attend for personal reasons that I kept to myself. Someone who I normally consider a good friend decided to turn it into a personal crusade and made this molehill into a mountain.



I just want it to be about the music before anything else.


(thumbs up) well said sir.

[Tronic]

I support george holland

[anonymous-i]

Gotta say after a long weekend, this was a great deal of fun! Seemed all the dj's enjoyed themselves as well as the dancers on the floor! Props to all the very talented and lovely Womyn who played for this event. Thank you!

Thanks to all the dancers and patrons in lieu of the holiday for coming!

xo!

[Mi'ka]

I totally understand where you're coming from George. Thanks for looking out for your friends, you are a good man. I support you, your decision and am not at all offended by it. <3

[L8NITE_RENEGADE]

WOW I wonder sometimes why I even still post on this thing....

George sorry if you thought I was aiming this at you... but I think you have let some emotions get the worst of you and have made a big mistake calling me out homie... dnt get it nore do I think its fair

Trust me it seemed like we were doing something good with NECTAR but apparently it made lots of people irritated... I have herd from many guys... not you bro but like a handfull of others... girls included ...that is what I was talking bout..... but obviously I hit a sore spot geez mang

I am sick and tired of people acting like they are 2 years old on here.... I say two lines and then get an attack on this board... why because I am trying to team up with other people to do things in this city that don't always happen anymore? Y because we try to bring new different stuff to this town...

Chill out and grow up this is truly ridiculous

I support your bla bla bla I was never even attacking anyone so please dnt attack me

please you know what type of person I am ... I dnt sling mudd and I speak my mind ... glad you do too

but seriously people need to not be so sensitivo on this dang board

so anyone who thinks I was talking to them.... WHITE FLAG & PEACE TO ALL

[beatpusher]

Even though I know and support most of the DJ's on the lineup, I have to say the "all girl party" thing just irritates the hell out of me. No way would I attend something so ridicules. I hope the promoters of this party put a little more thought and creativity into their next show.

As for Mr. Holland - anyone out there who questions his support of this 'scene' or his support of other DJ's is clearly out of touch with reality.

[L8NITE_RENEGADE]

"I hope the promoters of this party put a little more thought and creativity into their next show."

WOW I SURE LOVE THIS CITY!!!! AND ITS SCENE!!!!!

[Mortal Grey]

I enjoyed Lunalenas set very much. Perfect Cyn was also very good.

I think the KV2 sound in the main room needs to be tweaked a bit...Mids were lacking. Bass sounded a bit loose. That's just my opinion though. I heard other people say that they loved it.

Thanks to everyone who put heart and soul into making this happen. (don't stress on any negativity guys, just keep moving forward).

EZ

[L8NITE_RENEGADE]

i enjoyed lunalenas set very much. Perfect cyn was also very good.

I think the kv2 sound in the main room needs to be tweaked a bit...mids were lacking. Bass sounded a bit loose. That's just my opinion though. I heard other people say that they loved it.

Thanks to everyone who put heart and soul into making this happen. (don't stress on any negativity guys, just keep moving forward).

Ez

word up!!!! Home slice!!!!

Epic summa awaits@@@@!!!!!@#$%^&*()

[Unda Dawgz]

^^^

Word up.

Looking forward to checking out your stage at Fire!

- Mortal

[George Holland]

WOW I wonder sometimes why I even still post on this thing....

George sorry if you thought I was aiming this at you... but I think you have let some emotions get the worst of you and have made a big mistake calling me out homie... dnt get it nore do I think its fair

Trust me it seemed like we were doing something good with NECTAR but apparently it made lots of people irritated... I have herd from many guys... not you bro but like a handfull of others... girls included ...that is what I was talking bout..... but obviously I hit a sore spot geez mang

I am sick and tired of people acting like they are 2 years old on here.... I say two lines and then get an attack on this board... why because I am trying to team up with other people to do things in this city that don't always happen anymore? Y because we try to bring new different stuff to this town...

Chill out and grow up this is truly ridiculous

I support your bla bla bla I was never even attacking anyone so please dnt attack me

please you know what type of person I am ... I dnt sling mudd and I speak my mind ... glad you do too

but seriously people need to not be so sensitivo on this dang board

so anyone who thinks I was talking to them.... WHITE FLAG & PEACE TO ALL

Apology accepted. I also apologize to you if you did not mean this for me. I had reason to believe you did because I received an earful of grief about it from a few people very close to you.

I honestly had no idea anybody else had brought the issue up with you, because certainly I never came across people who shared my views on the subject before this party. Only after posting what I did have I heard similar opinions.

I don't think I "called you out" or "attacked you." In fact, I went out of my way to show my appreciation and respect for you while defending what I thought was an unfair jab at me not showing enough gratitude to the community that I cherish in PDX. I just wanted to make it clear that I do support my friends and take it very seriously. Since we have established that you weren't referring to me in particular, again, I apologize sincerely.

However, the fact remains, you wrote something somewhat inciteful in your review. If I hadn't responded and thought you were talking to me, I'm guessing someone else would have as well. I think it should have been left out of your review, plain and simple.

Having said all that, I do believe its a really interesting topic, and I'm glad that it is up for public discussion on this board. I don't think it was particularly immature to discuss it here, nor do I feel you were unfairly "attacked." If people were actually acting like "2 year olds", they would have thrown a fit in the thread before the party, or complained publicly in other ways. They didn't. They respectfully disagreed and quietly stayed home that night. I can't think of a more level headed way to deal with the situation.

You and I are friends. As I stated before, I am behind you and your events and am humbled that you have booked me in the past. I apologize for assuming you were speaking in regards to me, but I still very much believe in everything I wrote and am thankful to have the discussion out in the open.

Respect,
George

[skloot]

Freaky Bitches by Andrea Parker (lets get her back out here huh??) .. dj godfather remix. Man that track is DOPE!!!

yessss!
I was in Detroit watching Godfather the other day :D

[Differener]

(don't stress on any negativity guys, just keep moving forward).

Agreed.

I really enjoyed myself even though I had to leave much earlier then I wanted to.

I don't think anyone can argue against the fact that everyone involved in this event had only the best intentions for the event and the community in mind even if you don't support the theme.

[What Up Mahvi]

My only thoughts about the party was the fact that on past memorial Day weekends... most people were away... and turnout was low...

I saw the lineup and wanted to go. I went. I had fun.

I've been busy, and haven't had time to edit and upload my videos of the party. I got some great footage!
(I am working on it...)

I have to say again: MARGO WAS INCREDIBLE!

sorry 'bout the strong feelings about 'the issue'. I'm glad that emotions are restrained, and that VIBE and RESPECT prevails. I have the deepest for you George. and all others involved in the 'discussion'.

I have met some of the most intelligent and talented people here on the board... always good reading.

Well, back to work...

[George Holland]

I don't think anyone can argue against the fact that everyone involved in this event had only the best intentions for the event and the community in mind even if you don't support the theme.

Absolutely. There's no doubt in my mind that everyone's heart was in the right place overall.

Kudos for underlining this fact.

[anonymous-i]

I hope the promoters of this party put a little more thought and creativity into their next show.


Ummm... where you there? The event was EXTREMELY creative! I guess the umm... 3000sq ft installation, or lighting up a new dj booth, or hmmm 2ft stage was all slipping your mind?! A great deal of "creativity" and resource went into this.

Seemed everyone there had a blast and the ones who where not, always have the most to say.

Regardless the pacific NW has great female talent!

[George Holland]

sorry 'bout the strong feelings about 'the issue'. I'm glad that emotions are restrained, and that VIBE and RESPECT prevails. I have the deepest for you George. and all others involved in the 'discussion'.

I have met some of the most intelligent and talented people here on the board... always good reading.

Well, back to work...

Cheers Mahvi, back atcha. :)

[Pipedream]

I'm throwing an all jew lineup. You guys cant come.

[Pipedream]

Well stated for sure, but I'm not in agreement. In a perfect world the boycotters would be right. However, it doesn't take the rational person to investigate too far into society to see that men and women are NOT holistically treated equal. Women couldn't even vote until 1920 in the states, and it was signed into international law in 1950. We haven't had a woman president in the 200 years of being a country. This is obviously why Hilary Clinton was such a symbol for women, understandably so. I would place a high wager that even if Hilary and Obama's politics were the same- Hilary would lose because she was a woman and Obama is a Man. Our society is just ingrained in the idea of Men = Strength and Women = Weakness since the birth of MANkind.

I think Tracy said it best, that its something difficult for a male to understand- being a woman. Just like prejudice is difficult for a white male to understand.

Woman still on the average make lower salarys on the same jobs than men. Women still fight the glass ceiling effect in the work place, as well as deal with sexist and sexual harassment issues that men on the whole do not understand.

We are inching our way to an equal society, but I don't think we are there.

So while I would say, sure I see George's point and understand where his logic is coming from- its kind of like communism- It's a good principle and works on paper and the theory seems solid, but in practice it doesn't (or very rarely does it) work.

-Badger

PS - I got a D in gender and woman's studies. :/ so my facts can has fudge factor.

[L8NITE_RENEGADE]

I'm throwing an all jew lineup. You guys cant come.

but what if I wear a yamika and bring you a golden dradle?

http://www.taylortheteacher.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/dradle-small.jpg

[George Holland]

Woman still on the average make lower salarys on the same jobs than men. Women still fight the glass ceiling effect in the work place, as well as deal with sexist and sexual harassment issues that men on the whole do not understand.

We are inching our way to an equal society, but I don't think we are there.

So while I would say, sure I see George's point and understand where his logic is coming from- its kind of like communism- It's a good principle and works on paper and the theory seems solid, but in practice it doesn't (or very rarely does it) work.

-Badger



So we are not allowed to strive for improvement? How do you think this "inching" happens, anyway?

This is just like any other grassroots movement that has to slowly build momentum. Be it gay marriage, decriminalization of marijuana, segregation or anything else. It doesn't happen overnight, but little by little perceptions change in the collective mind and things improve.

At one point, blacks were thought of only as slaves, their freedom was inconceivable to most americans.

Then they were freed and they still couldn't vote.

Then they could vote, but only as 3/5ths of a white man.

Then they got the full vote, but they still had separate bathrooms and schools.

Then eventually they were able to integrate schools as well.

While obviously we have a long ways to go w/ racism, this is a good example of how long it can take for perception to change, but that it does happen, and the way it happens is with small steps forward.

I agree with you, women have a different set of obstacles in american life, but that's no excuse for not trying to do better. I know you weren't specifically saying it was a lost cause, but I just wanted to make the point that things can improve if we work at them.

Jesus, listen to me. Usually its hard to tell I was raised in Eugene, but its really comin' out today. :)

[JAK]

WOW I wonder sometimes why I even still post on this thing....

George sorry if you thought I was aiming this at you... but I think you have let some emotions get the worst of you and have made a big mistake calling me out homie... dnt get it nore do I think its fair

Trust me it seemed like we were doing something good with NECTAR but apparently it made lots of people irritated... I have herd from many guys... not you bro but like a handfull of others... girls included ...that is what I was talking bout..... but obviously I hit a sore spot geez mang

I am sick and tired of people acting like they are 2 years old on here.... I say two lines and then get an attack on this board... why because I am trying to team up with other people to do things in this city that don't always happen anymore? Y because we try to bring new different stuff to this town...

Chill out and grow up this is truly ridiculous

I support your bla bla bla I was never even attacking anyone so please dnt attack me

please you know what type of person I am ... I dnt sling mudd and I speak my mind ... glad you do too

but seriously people need to not be so sensitivo on this dang board

so anyone who thinks I was talking to them.... WHITE FLAG & PEACE TO ALL


Sounds like George and Jeff need to hug it out.

wish I could have made it out to this. interesting discussion though.

[MercuryOptic]

[QUOTE=Ewan;2440097]

Production value was fantastic, the sound was good (maybe could have been louder in the main room). I have to say with all the red fabric on the walls, it felt like being inside a giant vagina, sort of... :p

you mean the red fabric that's permanently installed on the walls and event producers are instructed to not remove? weak yo. and rather uneducated about the general state of vaginas. but i just realized you :p after your comment. it was supposed to be funny.

mon bad

[MercuryOptic]

[QUOTE=L8NITE_RENEGADE;2441748]but what if I wear a yamika and bring you a golden dradle?

men and women in separate rooms!

hahahahahahahahaha

[George Holland]

[QUOTE=L8NITE_RENEGADE;2441748]but what if I wear a yamika and bring you a golden dradle?

men and women in separate rooms!

hahahahahahahahaha

Ha. Sex education class all over again. :)

[L8NITE_RENEGADE]

Sounds like George and Jeff need to hug it out.

wish I could have made it out to this. interesting discussion though.

or have a fight to the death!!!!! hehehehhe JK JK

we will sit back wit sum 40oz and everyting gunna b alright!!!

http://www.40ozmaltliquor.com/40ozcrew/collections/pics/40ozcollection01.jpg

[George Holland]

or have a fight to the death!!!!! hehehehhe JK JK

we will sit back wit sum 40oz and everyting gunna b alright!!!

http://www.40ozmaltliquor.com/40ozcrew/collections/pics/40ozcollection01.jpg

For real man. That bottle of Brick House has my name on it.

[31avas]

So, like, 95% of techno line ups are all men. Why is it not okay to have one that is all women?

Yes, of course it's gross when all women line ups are marketed with sexist images, or the DJs aren't actually good, and I don't go to events like that because I don't like sexist marketing or crappy DJs, but that wasn't the case with Nectar.

So can there ever be a techno event that's all women? Or is it always considered sexist -- even if the DJs are really good and it's not marketed in a sexist way? If the ONE LINE in the Nectar press materials (not even on the flier) that said "exceptional female talent" was removed, would that make it okay? Or just women can't ever all be on one bill together, there have to be men?

[MercuryOptic]

as a woman, i start to get irritated by george's opinion that an all-girl party is something he wouldn't support but then i'm thankful that he'd also boycott an all-whatever party no matter what the theme was. okay. cool. i get that. i don't really dig the "grrl" or "womyn" power thing but i probably wouldn't boycott the theme. i'd probably be accused of boycotting that venue before i'd boycott the party for some other reason, but shhh...tell no one.

it sounded good in theory and i support the awesome female djs around here. i have spent years trying to find good girl djs to support and only in the last couple years have been able to come up with more than, like, two who (and i'll just go ahead and be a traitor to my gender here) aren't boring as shit and/or don't trainwreck for 45 minutes straight. another thing to ponder: the genre-fication of parties here in portland is, in my opinion, kinda hurting the scene. nectar seems to have gotten nailed by perhaps both of these issues on top of memorial day weekend when everybody's gone anyway. bummer...

[skloot]

Yes, of course it's gross when all women line ups are marketed with sexist images, or the DJs aren't actually good, and I don't go to events like that because I don't like sexist marketing or crappy DJs, but that wasn't the case with Nectar.
It's all about intent!

[George Holland]

So, like, 95% of techno line ups are all men. Why is it not okay to have one that is all women?

Yes, of course it's gross when all women line ups are marketed with sexist images, or the DJs aren't actually good, and I don't go to events like that because I don't like sexist marketing or crappy DJs, but that wasn't the case with Nectar.

So can there ever be a techno event that's all women? Or is it always considered sexist -- even if the DJs are really good and it's not marketed in a sexist way? If the ONE LINE in the Nectar press materials (not even on the flier) that said "exceptional female talent" was removed, would that make it okay? Or just women can't ever all be on one bill together, there have to be men?

Well, I just feel like the gender should be irrelevant. Like I said earlier, if the DJs are chosen for factors other than their gender first, then that is great. All male parties, and mixed-gender parties aren't set out to have that gender-based sort of lineup, they are chosen by factors such as talent, cost, friendship to the promoter, seniority, etc.

Everyone knows that this party was designed from the beginning about gender first and other factors second. Which, again, some people are into and OK with, some are not. I never set out to be a crusader, just to explain my take.

You make a really good point though, that you cannot assume from the start that every all-female event was speicifically designed that way. You can have a great lineup come together that happens to be female and it should not be suspect. That actually is a perfect crystallization of what I'd love to see.

It is such a rare occurrence that this happens (because of the male to female ratio in DJs I'm guessing) that it hasn't come up much. But I give you my word, that I would not consider it some sort of gender party unless I heard otherwise. I can make you that promise.

My entire motivation with all of this is to push for female/gay/black/alien/whatever DJs to be seen and recognized for their musical talent alone. It's because I believe in you as a competent and noteworthy DJ that I am against this angle.

No hard feelings?

[Pipedream]

George, you woo me with your wordsmithery.

[Differener]

I'm throwing an all jew lineup. You guys cant come.

We could call it Hip Hop Shabbat!

[theperfectcyn]

oh my, look at that! ithe sun is shining and i'm a smiling.
imma gonna be on 2 rooftops in 4 days time, what?
you guys should go out and soak up some vitamin d.
love you! mean it!

[kizat]

I support george holland

Srzly... QFT!!! ;)

[IcebearBPM]

Sorry it took me so long to write up a proper review, I blame work, school and saving the world (yet again) but here we go!

I must say that I was really impressed with many of the dj's at Nectar. Props to Ali Cat, Zita, Kassette, Mena, J.Phlip, Ava and Miss Margo.

I have to say that Miss Vixen and the Perfect Cyn dropped some bangin' cuts, well done ladies!

My dear friend Forest Green came up and showed Portland why the SF Bay Area loves her so much, she had the 18+ room rocking from start to finish. I've known Forest for many years and she continues to amaze me after all this time, well done indeed!!!

Last but not least I have to give kudos to Mi'ka, Portland is very luck to have you. Every time I see you play that statement becomes more cemented in my mind. Your tracks selections are always on point, and no matter what I know that once you get on the decks I'm going to hear some banging fresh tracks. While others rely on a few new tracks mixed in with the old, you bring something new to the table each and every time. The crowd was loving it, and you KILLED IT, I don't know how J.Phlip was able to follow that but I'm pretty sure she was impressed.

Thanks to the promoters, the venue and the people that made the event happen. All the drama aside it was a fun event and everyone there seemed to have a great time:)

Cant wait to see what the Summer has in store for all of us....see you at Escape Civilization June 13th, Go Team Techno!!!

Here are some of the pic I took at Nectar (more on my Myspace account)

http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/70/l_2ba0e57c9cb248df85911d49fee21fb8.jpg

http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/67/l_54a5f3be231240cdb10609be4b78e84b.jpg

http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/82/l_7546b755b3d24005b4265feb97dc6c64.jpg

http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/86/l_07479e16e905493889138658a154e166.jpg

http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/87/l_fe7445f4fe774a5cb1206d354c698056.jpg

http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/82/l_72b023f6d7864007856a875e26e9c8f1.jpg

http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/87/l_1fdf9ac9ce7748399247b80670c53e5b.jpg

http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/86/l_6057e2c933284a0db8382605174cce71.jpg

http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/110/l_4eb2222760d94e518d03b11eb4476603.jpg

[djsence]

George, you woo me with your wordsmithery.


indeeedelydooo

[Mi'ka]

Thanks for the kind words guys. I was having a great time up there if you couldn't tell from my ridiculous dancing. :D

Looking forward to catching a lot of these DJ's @ Fire! There's going to be some serious talent blowing up those stages!

[31avas]

No hard feelings?

Never were.

[31avas]

oh, and Roodie, your pics look GREAT! Aaaaaand. ..I didn't even notice you shooting. Nice work.

[Homatek]

You know, I was not down with the all girl thing either because I feel when it comes to music, men and women are most deff equal.
However, once I saw the lineup, I got the point. This was just to showcase the sickest gals we have here in town. (and out of town.)
It was a pretty damn good time. I was working in 18+ room pretty much the whole night, but I did get to sneak over and hear some of J Phlips set. (which by the way, that girl is cute and she rocks socks)
I got to hear all of Miss Ali Cat's set and she dropped some killer tunes.
I have to say that my favs of the night (because I was in the 18+ room most the night) were most deff Forest Green and Miss Vixen. You guys brought it hard and took the party up a notch.
Not to mention Forest Green is like the sweetest lady ever.
Oh and I almost forogt Miss margo, who KILLED it in the morning as the sun was rising.
Good times! Most deff ravetastic from where I was at.

[Icu-Kiss]

I had no complaints music was great, but what was up with the porta potty bathrooms, they was only two and they were full before the night was half way over...Thats the only thing I would have changed. Other than that mad props!!! GOOD ass music and good vibes all around!

[Ultradella]

i wasn't able to make it to this party; i'm therefore unable to contribute to any discussion of the ravery itself. i do, however, have a few thoughts about the discussion of gender and woman-dj-only parties that has sprung up in this thread.

george holland, i'm glad that your world has evolved past the need for feminism or feminine empowerment; growing up in eugene exposed you to lots of strong, independent women that needed no boost from anyone, i'm sure. but the eugenekstanian leveled gender "playing field" didnt just drop out of the sky--it evolved through the efforts and visibility of women stepping out of the shadows and the kitchens and sharing their talents with the larger community. and an all-female showcase of whatever skill, be it fly-fishing or beatmatching, is one method of reminding others that capable women exist and have mad ability. and by bringing up discussions like this one, it shows how unusual an all-female cadre still is. if it occurs, it must be some marketing gimmick, right? looking back on the promotion for the party done on this site, the femininity of the lineup is not hyped up-- there is just the one phrase ,"exceptional female talent"--seems rather subtle to me.

i can understand if you are bitter about getting denied a booking so some tacky sexy girl can have a go behind the decks and get oogled all night by drooling hard-up horny hipsters, but i think that directing that latent frustration at this party is taking your principle too far. i dont think any of the djs at this party were booked for their "sex factor"-- ive seen all of their names on other lineups, and read positive reviews of them in past threads. i'm sure youre aware that all-male lineups happen all the time to no fanfare or criticism about discrimination.

anyway, my views on gender and gender roles have been massively influenced by living in a world where seperate spheres are alive and well, everybody's mom is a housewife,everybody's girlfriend is expected to make tea for the dudes and clean up after dinner, and dance clubs' clientele is 90% men cause unmarried women arent allowed out at night. i still see a clear and serious need for some girl power every now and then.

and ewan, i take issue with your statement, and i quote, "One certainly takes a risk by pointing out misandry (hatred of men) and/or anti-male sexism in today's female-worshiping, politically correct society, but such discrimination certainly exists and there is no shortage of objective/scientific (and anecdotal) evidence attesting to the fact. " please provide us with some of this ample objective/scientific (and anecdotal) evidence

[George Holland]

i wasn't able to make it to this party; i'm therefore unable to contribute to any discussion of the ravery itself. i do, however, have a few thoughts about the discussion of gender and woman-dj-only parties that has sprung up in this thread.

george holland, i'm glad that your world has evolved past the need for feminism or feminine empowerment; growing up in eugene exposed you to lots of strong, independent women that needed no boost from anyone, i'm sure. but the eugenekstanian leveled gender "playing field" didnt just drop out of the sky--it evolved through the efforts and visibility of women stepping out of the shadows and the kitchens and sharing their talents with the larger community. and an all-female showcase of whatever skill, be it fly-fishing or beatmatching, is one method of reminding others that capable women exist and have mad ability. and by bringing up discussions like this one, it shows how unusual an all-female cadre still is. if it occurs, it must be some marketing gimmick, right? looking back on the promotion for the party done on this site, the femininity of the lineup is not hyped up-- there is just the one phrase ,"exceptional female talent"--seems rather subtle to me.

i can understand if you are bitter about getting denied a booking so some tacky sexy girl can have a go behind the decks and get oogled all night by drooling hard-up horny hipsters, but i think that directing that latent frustration at this party is taking your principle too far. i dont think any of the djs at this party were booked for their "sex factor"-- ive seen all of their names on other lineups, and read positive reviews of them in past threads. i'm sure youre aware that all-male lineups happen all the time to no fanfare or criticism about discrimination.

anyway, my views on gender and gender roles have been massively influenced by living in a world where seperate spheres are alive and well, everybody's mom is a housewife,everybody's girlfriend is expected to make tea for the dudes and clean up after dinner, and dance clubs' clientele is 90% men cause unmarried women arent allowed out at night. i still see a clear and serious need for some girl power every now and then.

and ewan, i take issue with your statement, and i quote, "One certainly takes a risk by pointing out misandry (hatred of men) and/or anti-male sexism in today's female-worshiping, politically correct society, but such discrimination certainly exists and there is no shortage of objective/scientific (and anecdotal) evidence attesting to the fact. " please provide us with some of this ample objective/scientific (and anecdotal) evidence

First of all, I just would like to say how much I am enjoying this conversation over all. I think this is such a great example of the fact that you CAN have respectful and thoughtful disagreements and debates online and not have them devolve into ugly mudslinging. :)

Anyway, just a few things I want to address.

I believe you're right, that there was a time and a place for the female showcase to happen. 10 years ago the DJ landscape did seem much tougher for females and they really did have to work hard to be seen as legitimate equals in the world of dance music. Over time though, I think things have improved vastly to the point where it is time to move past the "Hey, we are girls, and we can DJ too!" state of mind, and on to a "Hey, we are great DJs who happen to be female" way of thinking.

If you re-read my reply to Ava you will notice that I made a promise not to assume an all-female lineup was designed with gender in mind first. With the amount of female DJs that are getting involved in dance culture increasing every day, this is a reality that is inevitable and I am all for it. The fact remains, once again, that I knew it was a female party first and foremost, and that still rubs me the wrong way. You are completely correct, it was not slutty or over-the-top in any way, shape or form, nor did I say it was. The phrase "exceptional female talent" is subtle, but it still compartmentalizes female DJs in my opinion. Why not "exceptional talent?"

In regards to your 3rd paragraph, I have just a couple more points I'd like to make. First of all, I'm not bitter about losing any bookings no matter what the reason. I am 34 years old and have been behind the decks for 15 years. I am so far beyond getting bent out of shape about missing "the next big rave gig" it isn't even funny. I also never said anyone on this lineup was selected for their "sex factor." Please re-read my first post in this thread in which I meticulously outline what a fan I am of a large majority of this lineup and how much enjoy their music on its own merit.

" i still see a clear and serious need for some girl power every now and then" I think this is probably the crux of our disagreement. Obviously we are both behind the idea of female DJs prospering. That is not in question at all. You seem to feel that women DJs dont get a fair enough shake yet and need this exposure to help level the playing field more, correct? And I, on the other hand, feel like we are at the point where they can be seen as legitimate equal talent already and we can move past gender and just focus on quality. I am OK with these differing view points and am happy to agree to disagree. You may be right, I may be wrong. I still believe in my side of the story, but I don't hold it against anyone if we don't see eye to eye.

Again, fantastic discussion. Thank you for sharing your point of view.

Respect,
George

[Ewan]

Ava, no disrespect, I just want to point a few things out here:

The event concept was sexist, but NOT because it promoted women in a "sexist" way. The event did not do so and it was not promoted as such. And I admit the promoters should be commended for avoiding that trap, as many fail to do so. But it was quite clear from the promotional activities that this was a special all-female lineup. I am pretty sure everyone involved & everyone attending the event was aware of this.

It was sexist in that men were blatantly excluded from the DJ lineup on the basis of their genitalia. It's simply not equality of opportunity. Women alone were granted the privilege of playing -- and yes, these are talented people (which is why I came out), but no matter how talented they were, if they had penises they would not have been on the lineup. The sexism in question is overt discrimination against males, not females. What's depressing is that so many people are used to accepting anti-male sexism as routine & somehow fair. I'm encouraged to see so many men speaking up about it here.

Women already have the same opportunities as men to compete for DJ slots. It's not as though male promoters are sitting in a back room somewhere saying, "Well, she's a girl, so we won't let her play." Pretty much all promoters love having talented women on their lineups. There is no patriarchal conspiracy in the DJ scene. Women are given every chance to rise to the top, and I would argue that on average a talented woman is given more opportunities than an equally talented man (especially in a place as politically liberal as PDX). Whether or not women "deserve" or "need" these extra opportunities is debatable (I would say they do not).

The fact is, women in general are simply less motivated to compete for status than are men. That isn't a character judgment, it's a scientific fact. For men, virtually our entire mate value is derived from our ability to compete. We begin learning this at a very young age. Men who compete well are the ones who get their genes passed on. We are all descendants of men who competed and won. For women, however, there is no strong correlation between competitive desire/success and mate value. This is why you regularly see more men than women at/near the top of most inter-sex competitive hierarchies, including the techno world. It has little to do with ability or skill, and much to do with differing motivations and their reproductive utility.

This isn't a sexist or discriminatory statement, it's just the nature of our evolutionary biology. And I understand there are individual exceptions to the rule -- I have been attracted to many dominant women myself, and there are obviously many women peppered throughout all kinds of hierarchies -- but I'm talking about women/men as a general lot, on the aggregate. And sure, times are changing, but our genes are ancient, and our proclivities reflect ancient times when mere survival was the #1 priority (much to the dismay of many would-be social engineers).

I think DJs should be rewarded for how well and how hard they compete, on the merits of their skills & accomplishments -- not for possessing a particular set of reproductive organs. Being born female is not a skill, nor an accomplishment.


So, like, 95% of techno line ups are all men. Why is it not okay to have one that is all women?

Yes, of course it's gross when all women line ups are marketed with sexist images, or the DJs aren't actually good, and I don't go to events like that because I don't like sexist marketing or crappy DJs, but that wasn't the case with Nectar.

So can there ever be a techno event that's all women? Or is it always considered sexist -- even if the DJs are really good and it's not marketed in a sexist way? If the ONE LINE in the Nectar press materials (not even on the flier) that said "exceptional female talent" was removed, would that make it okay? Or just women can't ever all be on one bill together, there have to be men?

[Ronindnb]

I didnt go but....

Im sure all of those girls killed it! Ive heard or know alot of them and they are some of portlands finest. We have some girls in the dnb scene as well that tear it up. Most of these girls have great track selection, smooth mixes and dont overdue it, and great stage presence. Not to say that guys dont, I just think theres nothing like seeing a girl be really good at what she does, sometimes better than you :p Shit I think my gf is one of my fav pdx djs and not cuz im bias ;) This party didn't have a cheesy name promoting as an all girl lineup, there were no topless djs wrecking it up and all of the girls on that lineup deserve to play. Theyre not on the bill cuz they are hot or whatever, they are on there cuz they deserve to be.

I dont really see whats wrong with that. I know jeffs a good guy and does alot for the edm community, and i know when you are throwing alot of shows its hard to keep up and come up with fresh ideas. I think a party like this is good every once in awhile. All in all id say hes thrown some major shows and everytime they are solid. respect that.

[juju*bee]

it's interesting to read everyone's varying opinions on the matter of boycotting an event because it is perceived to be sexist.

however, it seems to me like it's a bit of a catch 22, because isn't it also kinda sexist to boycott an event solely because the lineup is all female? whether the event is billed as "exceptional talent" or "exceptional female talent," the reason you guys are saying you wouldn't go is still, ultimately, because the lineup is all female.

things that make you go hmmmmm




ps. piperz u rule! :) ... and all you gorgeous ladies rule too of course! ;)

[Ultradella]

^interesting observation, jujubee.^

george holland, i truly appreciate the time you have taken to lay your opinion out on the table. i can understand your reasoning and i respect your right to think for yourself and make your own choices. i also know that you are better aware of the intricacies of the portland latenight culture than i am, and i hope that you are correct in saying that female djs have moved past the need for "affirmative action" in our sweet city of roses.

to all of you reading this thread, there are still a few things i am thinking about. regarding the fact that sexy, untalented chick djs get gigs before more talented dude djs, i disagree with the assertion that this is biased in favor of women. this is biased in favor of sex factor. that sexy chick dj would also get the job over a less sexy, more talented chick dj, right? so in those cases, it's not the genitalia, but the titties and lipstick that get the hot chick the gig. can that really be considered sexism or misandry? it's actually to get more dudes through the door, and give the dudes something that they enjoy looking at, promoting a marginalized role for women as an object. that shit aint girl power! do you think strip clubs discriminate against men by hiring hot female dancers?

and there was a little line in one of gh's posts that roused my thinking cap. he said something along the lines of "most of the time, dj's get hired because of talent, price, relationship to the promoter..." it's this "relationship to the promoter" thing that seems kindof glass-ceiling-y to me. i mean, the same type of language was used to justify keeping boardrooms vag-free for years. "i know this guy, he's a good guy, we golf together, so i'll hire him over that prim bitch in the corner who has worked here longer and never says a word to me."

george holland, i realize that what i just said in quotes is really far from the completely respectful and absolutely courteous tone you have kept throughout your comments regarding this issue. thanks for engaging in dialogue with me. i dont want you to feel like i'm twisting your words or anything; i, however, have inferred pernicious undertones in explaining the reason why women don't get booked as often as men as because they lack a relationship with the promoter. i would love to hear more about what you have to say about that.

i defer to y'alls expertise of the workings of the past present and future ptown scene, generally

[George Holland]

and there was a little line in one of gh's posts that roused my thinking cap. he said something along the lines of "most of the time, dj's get hired because of talent, price, relationship to the promoter..." it's this "relationship to the promoter" thing that seems kindof glass-ceiling-y to me. i mean, the same type of language was used to justify keeping boardrooms vag-free for years. "i know this guy, he's a good guy, we golf together, so i'll hire him over that prim bitch in the corner who has worked here longer and never says a word to me."

george holland, i realize that what i just said in quotes is really far from the completely respectful and absolutely courteous tone you have kept throughout your comments regarding this issue. thanks for engaging in dialogue with me. i dont want you to feel like i'm twisting your words or anything; i, however, have inferred pernicious undertones in explaining the reason why women don't get booked as often as men as because they lack a relationship with the promoter. i would love to hear more about what you have to say about that.


No problem at all, I'm happy to explain. You completely hit the nail on the head with the "We golf together, so I'll hire him" line of thinking.

I was just talking about how promoters often times book within their own cliques and circles. As you know, this isn't really ground-breaking news, since it has been happening for years and years and obviously also extends to the hiring world in general. Modern life is all about networking. Promoters, in addition to the other factors like skill, style, popularity, etc., like to book friends or at least people they enjoy being arond to fill out a lineup. It will always happen. I also sort of can't really blame them. I mean if I was laying out thousands of dollars and all this effort to make my own party happen, I would want some friends to play. Sometimes the inclusion of a "friend DJ" will mean the exclusion of a DJ who isn't in the clique but happens to be tighter on the decks. This is unfortunate, but it's never going to change.

I personally don't really think that it translates to a "glass-ceiling" effect for female DJs though, as many of the female DJs I know are friends with promoters that love to have them play. I think people get excluded out of clique-ish gigs no matter what the sex. I know there have been a few events that I feel my sound would be perfect for but then I see a less competent DJ get booked who happens to be friends with the circle of promoters.

I think it happens to a lot of people across the spectrum of life.

Anyway, thank you for the kind words about the discussion. A pleasure hashing it out with you!

Best,
Geo.

[theperfectcyn]

hi.

This entry on this thread is not directed at any one person. This comes from years of having this very discussion on gender in the electronic music scene.

Once upon a time, there was SisterPDX. Sister was a local collective, an offshoot of SisterSF, of which Forest Green is a founding member, which came about so PDX girl djs and interested producers could girl down together. Point blank. It started in Layla's home (who now lives in Eugene) and graduated into other homes and club nights, some free and some that charged admission at the door. It was created out of a need for a forum for us to do our thing on our terms. I feel for some new girls to get introduced into the scene in a participatory role there is till is a need for this. Perhaps less of a need than before because of the evolution that has already been discussed in this here thread, but still a need. Even during my recent hiatus I met women that said virtually the same thing - they are really curious and motivated to learn these skills but somewhat intimidated, whether it be by the gear, the software, the fact that most people they can approach with their questions are male - so be it, the intimidating feeling is there.

Now SisterPDX has for most practical purposes disbanded because everyone got super totes busy working on individual projects, stopped playing, what have you. I should speak for myself, but soon as we all heard about NECTAR ... it was undeniable - I wanted to participate! Heck yeah I wanted a reunion of sorts, a chance to bond back together, and GIRL THE FUCK DOWN. I meant no harm or foul toward people with penises by doing this, and I think all participants on this lineup would agree. Frankly I feel that line of thinking is taking it a bit too far. FYI Back in the day SisterSF would let penises play @ their events - if they wore a dress - all in the spirit of the girly thang. The guys that did so had a sense of humor about the whole concept - It's not about exclusion or putting people of the other gender down, no way!! Oh my gosh, no. Mutual support for your lady friends. I don't know how else to put it. Feel free to boycott but it seems like boycotting something positive your friends are doing means you're the one losing out. Boycott something bad. You don't have to put on a dress and play the event! And hey, you don't have to come to the event either. But we are doing something good, and feeling good about doing it. And I feel like that ought to be reasonable in anyone's book.

Love,
Cyn

[IcebearBPM]

oh, and Roodie, your pics look GREAT! Aaaaaand. ..I didn't even notice you shooting. Nice work.

Thank you! <3:)

[What Up Mahvi]

[sorry it took so long]

Playlist on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29vD6QuL_nA&feature=PlayList&p=9ECDA3B8CA25567C&index=0&playnext=1

cool cool.

[~MiSs ViXeN~]

[sorry it took so long]

Playlist on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29vD6QuL_nA&feature=PlayList&p=9ECDA3B8CA25567C&index=0&playnext=1

cool cool.

awesome vids! Thanks for posting those Mahvi! :)

[Mena]

Wow.

Although, I agree with a lot of things said here on all sides of the argument, the gender topic is not a new discussion.

Speaking as an Artist, I have always had mixed feeling about sexual exploits in relation to my craft as a musician. Often, and I mean often, I have wondered if I get booked to play all female line ups because I am talented or female? The truth is I have to hope, in good faith, it is ultimately both.

With regard to Nectar, most of the girls who played are amazing artist and talented DJ's. The idea may not be so impressive that they were all female, as the novelty has indeed worn itself out over the years. However in this case, it is not their gender that is important. It is their music and it was good.

Thanks to those who came to support the music. Long live vinyl junkies.

[LeG.I.T.]

Props to you, Mena. You know how to ROCK it!
Hear, hear! LONG LIVE VINYL JUNKIES!!! WOOT!!!!!!!