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Andromeda.
01-07-2011, 07:58 PM
just read a good article about fresh water as a resource and a commodity. i knew water was a worldwide problem but not in such a political way.

Everyone agrees that we are in the midst of a global freshwater crisis. Around the world, rivers, lakes, and aquifers are dwindling faster than Mother Nature can possibly replenish them; industrial and household chemicals are rapidly polluting what’s left. Meanwhile, global population is ticking skyward. Goldman Sachs estimates that global water consumption is doubling every 20 years, and the United Nations expects demand to outstrip supply by more than 30 percent come 2040.

Proponents of privatization say markets are the best way to solve that problem: only the invisible hand can bring supply and demand into harmony, and only market pricing will drive water use down enough to make a dent in water scarcity. But the benefits of the market come at a price. By definition, a commodity is sold to the highest bidder, not the customer with the most compelling moral claim. As the crisis worsens, companies like True Alaska that own the rights to vast stores of water (and have the capacity to move it in bulk) won’t necessarily weigh the needs of wealthy water-guzzling companies like Coca-Cola or Nestlé against those of water-starved communities in Phoenix or Ghana; privately owned water utilities will charge what the market can bear, and spend as little as they can get away with on maintenance and environmental protection.

Other commodities are subject to the same laws, of course. But with energy, or food, customers have options: they can switch from oil to natural gas, or eat more chicken and less beef. There is no substitute for water, not even Coca-Cola. And, of course, those other things don’t just fall from the sky on whoever happens to be lucky enough to be living below. “Markets don’t care about the environment,” says Olson. “And they don’t care about human rights. They care about profit.”

The bottom line is this: that water is essential to life makes it no less expensive to obtain, purify, and deliver, and does nothing to change the fact that as supplies dwindle and demand grows, that expense will only increase. The World Bank has argued that higher prices are a good thing. Right now, no public utility anywhere prices water based on how scarce it is or how much it costs to deliver, and that, privatization proponents argue, is the root cause of such rampant overuse. If water costs more, they say, we will conserve it better.

The main problem with this argument is what economists call price inelasticity: no matter what water costs, we still need it to survive. So beyond trimming nonessential uses like lawn maintenance, car washing, and swimming pools, consumers really can’t reduce water consumption in proportion to rate increases. “Free-market theory works great for discretionary consumer purchases,” says Hauter. “But water is not like other commodities—it’s not something people can substitute or choose to forgo.” Dozens of studies have found that even with steep rate hikes, consumers tend to reduce water consumption by only a little, and that even in the worst cases, the crunch is disproportionately shouldered by the poor. In the string of droughts that plagued California during the 1980s, for example, doubling the price of water drove household consumption down by a third, but households earning less than $20,000 cut their consumption by half, while households earning more than $100,000 reduced use by only 10 percent.

In fact, critics say, private water companies usually have very little incentive to encourage conservation; after all, when water use falls, revenue declines.

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/10/08/the-race-to-buy-up-the-world-s-water.html

:cool:

KidKaBoom
01-07-2011, 08:14 PM
Tell this to everyone that thinks natural gas will save us and our energy addiction....Transition fuel my fucking nuts. FRACKING is not a good idea! Water has more value then anyone could ever imagine.

DragonKatt
01-07-2011, 08:42 PM
I love living in the NW.

SkyElectric
01-07-2011, 08:53 PM
I know all about this.
Here is a book you should read:
http://spfaust.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/41oo3fdrsql-_sl500_.jpg?w=337

Zilla
01-07-2011, 09:51 PM
the weird thing is most of the areas where 2 tribes have been battling for centuries, also face some of biggest upcoming shortages, 1 more thing they gotta find peace about
i lived with a dude who was based on a submarine a bit, he took like 30 second showers
now i feel guilty when i go past 2 minutes, and get pretty aggresive if a roomate takes a 45 minute shower

thanks for the book tip, i'll check it out!

BobbyRitalin
01-08-2011, 08:09 AM
I love living in the NW.

if by this meaning that you love the fact that it rains a bunch doesn't actually help you. the water has to go through the same water purification systems in order for you to drink it or bathe in it, thus costs you the same if it rains or not. that's how water comes out of your faucet even if it isn't raining outside duders.

bgrade
01-08-2011, 08:25 AM
Eventually (not long from now) people in areas with decent rainfall will have their own raincatchers and water purification systems for drinking water. A lot of people already collect water for the yards with rain barrels. My in laws live on a farm and need their own water purification system so the can drink the nasty water without running 10 miles of pipes to get to the city system. The components are there, but water is not too expensive just yet.

NeOmega
01-08-2011, 09:48 AM
Eventually (not long from now) people in areas with decent rainfall will have their own raincatchers and water purification systems for drinking water. A lot of people already collect water for the yards with rain barrels. My in laws live on a farm and need their own water purification system so the can drink the nasty water without running 10 miles of pipes to get to the city system. The components are there, but water is not too expensive just yet.

Its illegal in some counties to collect rain now.

also,

here is the great colorado river, the one that drives the hoover dam, and carved the grand canyon, near its mouth at the sea of cortez:

http://www.earthisland.org/eijournal/issueGallery/autumn2008/San-LuisSonoraMexico-medium.jpg

and the Aral sea:

http://www.sevensidedcube.net/wp-content/uploads/water.jpg

Both are water supplies that have literally been drained dry. Some summers, you can wade across the Colorado river near the sea of Cortez, and the Aral sea is now I think something like 1/10th the area it once was.

Israel's invaion of Lebanon in 2006 was supposed to go all the way to the Litani river, but they failed. My Lebanese friend says everyone thinks it's because Israel needs fresh water very badly. they need it so badly they consume mass amounts of energy running desalinization plants. I read it costs something like $5 a gallon to make fresh water in this fashion.

bgrade
01-08-2011, 11:20 AM
Even if it is Illegal people will eventually start collecting the rain water. I know when it rains hard in Portland, the sewers can not handle the flow and overflow into the river, which is why they encourage people to disconnect their downspouts. Put a 1 rain barrel at the end of the downspout and you get a shit load of free water in winter at least.

Zilla
01-08-2011, 12:47 PM
i think israel rations water, and palestinians are allowed 1/7th amount of israelis

anywhoo, in florida, the underground is a sponge made of bedrock, that desalines the seawater into fresh water like Lake Okechobee, but they've been draining the fresh water so much, it's starting to suck the seawater thru the bedrock to fast, pulling the salt with it, and ruining the only fresh water supply for florida
half of florida used to be underwater a few inches, but the guy who started the Sierra Club, as an environmentalist, wanted to save Florida by developing it in 1800's. many tried and failed, he got the idea to import Malaleuka trees form Australia, because they drink so much water (back then, it was to early to wonder about the side-effects of messing with nature's delicate balance).
it worked, the invasive trees took over and drank 4 inches of water away from on top of half of florida, and the aquifer don't work as well, and storms are messing with the coastline a lot (miami imports tons of sand every year because of storm erosion)

BobbyRitalin
01-08-2011, 12:51 PM
has los angeles sank into the fuckin ocean yet?

sink or gtfo

Andromeda.
01-08-2011, 01:28 PM
anywhoo, in florida, the underground is a sponge made of bedrock, that desalines the seawater into fresh water like Lake Okechobee, but they've been draining the fresh water so much, it's starting to suck the seawater thru the bedrock to fast, pulling the salt with it, and ruining the only fresh water supply for florida

this has been happening in india for about 2 decades. their wells have been tapped so badly that the ocean is coming up under them...sometimes from hundreds of miles away. it's a pretty frightening scenario when you think about the world's most populous (second populous?) country not being able to grow crops or have any drinking water because of the salt in the soil. it's going to be a catastrophe.

if by this meaning that you love the fact that it rains a bunch doesn't actually help you. the water has to go through the same water purification systems in order for you to drink it or bathe in it, thus costs you the same if it rains or not. that's how water comes out of your faucet even if it isn't raining outside duders.

perhaps he meant also that we have so many lakes and rivers here, we're not in any danger of having to import water from another country? that's how i read it anyway. but you're right about the process either way.

KidKaBoom
01-08-2011, 02:01 PM
....but in the mean time I get cheap delicious sugar cane coke made with some of the finest fresh water in Mexico. Delicious capitalism. Also as a country we are fucking over our supply of freshwater at unimaginable rates for cheap energy. :(

forrest303
01-08-2011, 05:50 PM
Making it illegal to harvest rainwater is bullshit. My old house here ONLY had catchment water.

Some states would have riots if they outlawed collecting rainwater. Speaking of which, see "The Corporation" which has an EXCELLENT section on private water companies in Bolivia and how the people went ballistic when their water rates shot up astronomically high.