What are the possible reasons explaining less dancing? What are the solutions?

[Jacob Trance]

I'm curious to know why at certain events, and most of which I attend, are characterized by very few people actually dancing at any given time.

I don't mean to say that not dancing is a bad thing. Also, I am not stating that all, or even most, events are not characterized by lots of dancers, because I'm sure a lot of them are. (I guess I just haven't been to any of them lately.) I am just curious to know what exactly what leads to this phenomena of little dancing. Also, I am curious to find an event or club where most of the people, at least on the dance floor, are dancing, but not just standing or socializing.

So here's a few hypotheses I have thought up to possibly explain why in certain cases there is less dancing.

(1)

In the case of non "family" or non "united" events, the dancers do not know each other and feel more self conscious about dancing and thus dance less.

When dancing, one may not feel safe in the crowd they are in, or may not be able to bond as much with the crowd especially if they do not know them well enough to gather whetehr or not it is safe to dance in that crowd.

Of course, this can be refuted by those who actually feel more comfortable dancing in a group of strangers, because they feel those strangers don't know them to judge them. They also feel they can escape from getting interrupted because the strangers do not know them and because of that, are less likely to go up and talk to them while they are dancing. This is why I often used prefer a crowd of strangers.


(2)

The concepts of dancing have shifted, possibly due to the shift in demographics and psychographics in events, or perhaps due social evolution all in it's own.

In one result of the shift, dancing is not as much of a bonding issue as it is a competitive issue in many cases. So, when dancing, people might get the feeling they are inferior if they believe in the competitive structure and see someone dancing better than them.


(3)

The characteristics of events have become too alike and social "event" norms have been formed based on these similarities, as a certain style of dancing is thus considered a norm.

So whenever someone dances with a style other than the norm of how one should dance, they are mocked, teased or stared at in result for not adhering to that dancing norm. In my personal experiences, this was often the case. I liked to "flame" dance, or did whatever felt liberating to me. But it was often embarrassing to do so when the majority of the group just stared at me.


(4)

Socializing takes more importance than dancing in some cases.

I actually see this as a benefit since socializing can bond just as well as dancing. Although, it can get irritating for dancers when everyone is socializing instead of dancing.


(5)

Feeling a the sense of helplessness and waiting for others to dance.

In this concept, when a person wants to dance so bad, but needs enough people to feel secure to dance, and there is not enough people, then they won't dance. In result, with this mentality, less and less people will end up dancing if no one goes out and dances first. This isn't a bad or wrong mentality. I feel this way a lot. I feel like I can't dance when there is not enough people around.

Then again, others prefer to dance when there is less people for various reasons.


So what are your thoughts on this? Do you think there is an underlying reason why many events have little people dancing? Or are there a number of reasons that explain each case seperately? Or is there a combination?

So what possible solutions do you think could result in an increased number of dancers at a given event?

-jacob

[ 06-02-2001: Message edited by: Jacob Trance ]

[Lu$HuZ]

You're such a pimp Jacob Trance!

I think a good way to get more people to dance is if there were skilled peeps giving lessons. People don't dance because they think they suck, and in most cases they do!!! But hey, if you don't come out to dance --- what the fuck did you come for?!?!? yes, exactly RHV, couldn't have stated it more eloquently myself!!!
:D

[evenstar]

I have thought of this myself as well!

My thoughts are it are this -

Yes sometimes i feel more like being social than dancing. . . sometimes because i just cant find that beat that gets me groovin' or because there are SO many people i want to talk to that i havent seen in forever.

But most times. . . the reason i come is to hear good music, bumping out of loud speakerz, so i can dance my ass off!!!

I dont care who watches - I dont care who mocks me - i am not a pro at liquid, popping, digging, or breakin - nor do i care to be - my dancing is exactly that... its MY DANCING!! Its my expression of what i am feeling . . . its me twisting beautiful music to something physical and visual.

The people that make fun of others are the kind of people whose opinions mean NOTHING to me so therefore if they say i suck then so be it!! At least im groovin' and feeling a positive vibe then generating more negativity.

And for the people that need that support of others - well, all i have to say is that i can see where you are coming from but at the same time *shrugs* you need to work on your issues with that - dont let others opinions hold you back from dancing!

:D Dance as if no one is watching :D

Peace, Love, and Groovin' - Alicia :)

[Jacob Trance]

aesthetica go go,

But hey, if you don't come out to dance --- what the fuck did you come for?!?!?

Well, since you asked...

:)

Sometimes I go to spin.
Sometimes I go to socialize.
Sometimes I go just to unwind the week's stress.
Sometimes I go to observe and marvel at such a non-hostile environment.

Of course, sometimes i dance with the crowd too. :)

-jacob

[IrisSilverMoon]

Well Jacob, if your spinning, how could anyone not dance?

Seriously tho, I know a lot of people who are self conscious when it comes to dancing. They just stand there, (or get etarded *blech*) and bob their heads to the beat. Usually when I ask them why they arent' dancing the response will be, a) I can't dance. b)I don't want to look like a freak. or c)I don't know how to do any of that liquid stuff.

My remedy? If they want to know liquid I try to teach them the basic stuff, other than that, the ones that don't want to look like freaks or think that they can't dance are usually the newer people to parties, generally I think the best thing to do is to assure them that no one cares what they look like when they dance, no one is going to come over and make fun of them for not being able to dance, and no one is going to think your a freak, cause it's not important, and they don't care. I just keep telling them this over and over, usually they come around, and get into it :D

[HUGGLES]

You know, there are some parties where I feel like dancing up a storm and others where I don't. Being social has a large effect. At places like FX is it just simply way to freaking hot to dance. Another thing that holds me back is I never really danced until I started going to raves. Even after I started going to raves I still hardly danced until I got into the music more and found a genre that I connected with. For me it was hard house because I lack rythym. I like to keep the beats simple. I can actually do some pretty simple, smoothe and even unique liquid but for some reason my footwork sucks a horse's ass. I'd actually feel even dumber if I was getting lessons on how to dance. Maybe I should break that barrier? I remember when I was at Squeeze and dancing to DJ Dan two guys actually came up to let me know that I looked like an idiot. Although I probably should have ignored them I didn't and I didn't dance much the rest of the night. When I did, it wasn't really with the same energy. Needless to say, I smoked a lot and went off to socialize. Anyway, good topic Jacob. These are jew a few of my random thoughts and personal experiences on the subject.

John Thomas

[antiplur superstar]

b/c the same thing that happened to rock music is happeningto electronic music . . . . more importance ont the performer less importance on the music. parties are becoming concerts . . I had a thread on this very topic not to long ago . . . . i think it was "Rock was Dance" . . . some good insite by others on the evolution of the latest dance music.

[antiplur superstar]

other insights on not dancing

When Rock Was Dance (images/smilies/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=003829)

[Ishkur]

You forgot another one, Jacob, a far simpler than the ones you listed, that being that maybe, just possibly, perhaps the music SUCKS.

I won't dance to shitty music. If the music moves me I dance. It doesn't matter if I'm on the floor by myself or 500 people, the music is the key factor here, not the people or the DJs. Especially at large parties, the music has gotten more diluted and more watered down, employing top40 tactics to make it more palatable to the LCD mainstream audience (hence the increasing popularity of raves the last 5 years. It is no longer something freaky and weird and underground, it is now safe and boring and socially acceptable, adopting mainstream trends and mainstream behavior).

Maybe the people realize this? Realize that every song is becoming a carbon copy of one another, and feel less like dancing and so use the rave as a social occasion instead.

Just a thought. Try playing some late 80s, OLDSKOOl acid house at a party. It wouldn't fly with the general partykid population these days because its not as warm or poppy as the music that they're accustomed to hearing and liking and listening to at raves.

*sigh* acid house.....I so wish someone would spin that....

Ish.

[Ryebread]

You can get a huge shift in the amount of dancers just by shifting the environment they're in a little.

Too much light, and they're too self concious.

Too hot and they just want to sit down and cool off.

Too much seating and you just make it easier to not do anything.

So, basically, throw a party in a near pitch-black room and crank the AC as low as it'll go, rip out a few seats, and you're all set.

-Ryan

[HUGGLES]

Moo!

I just would like to clarify on a few things. Although some people my be too concious of too much light, this doesn't mean FOG THE PLACE. I know this has been brought up before, but I'm happy to bring it up again, PLEASE STOP USING FOG MACHINES AT EVENTS!

The "too hot" thing is my personal biggest issue. Seriously, we need more fans. Replace the fog machine with a vent, add some fans. Maybe we could also talk to some hard core candy kids and see if we can make their wings flutter with motors or something? Maybe this way we will get more air flow, eh? Oh, that's right! Many people now dislike candy kids and they will soon be gone and replaced with thugs. Maybe we could talk some of the thugs into trying on wings? Hmmmm... =)

If people want to sit they are going to do so no matter what. If you don't have a place for people to sit then there will be drama bitches starting shit with people who are sitting down where they COULD be dancing.
I don't really disagree with you but this is a debatable issue.

Moo!

John Thomas

[bsweet]

I won't dance to shitty music. If the music moves me I dance. It doesn't matter if I'm on the floor by myself or 500 people, the music is the key factor here, not the people or the DJs.

This is exactly how I am too. Every time I go out, I go out with the goal of dancing as much as possible but unfortunately sometimes (seems to be happening more often lately) the music just doesn't deliver the needed release I want. I get so frustrated when I can't groove like I want to. If the dj trainwrecks, or just doesn't know how to mix (lets each record play out for waaaayy too long, usually ends up being very boring) I can't help but pay attention to the music because it throws my groove off!! When the music flows smoothly and puts me in a trance (and it can happen with any genre besides trance) that's when the dj knows what's up.

Promoters need to stop booking shitty dj's!! It doesn't matter if they are friends' of the promoter...if they suck, why should people be tortured into listening to them? I am tired of paying to listen to shitty dj's who don't know what they are doing!! Maybe my standards are too high (I hope not!) And shitty dj's need to chill out their egos to not to spin out until they have their skillz down!! Enough of these six-month "newbie" dj's who spin out every weekend!!

And a lot of people don't have a clue what is good anyhow...which depresses me even more. All they care about is "hype"...they don't know how to use their ears and brains!

Okay...I am done ranting. But if the music is good I will groove regardless of my surroundings. Been many a time when I was one of the few groovers on the dancefloor. I am not inhibited like a lot of silly people. (Cuz of of the secrets of "good" dancing is to just let go)

[ 06-02-2001: Message edited by: bsweet ]

[bsweet]

I think a good way to get more people to dance is if there were skilled peeps giving lessons

Every time I hear of grooving being "taught" it always rubs me the wrong way. It disgusts me that people actually think that there is a "correct" way to dance at parties and that they have to be "taught" certain moves so they don't look stupid. BAH!! (the whole local "liquid phenomenon" *shudder* Go to other countries and you will find that people don't dance liquid)

Looking stupid is all part of the fun! People need to lighten up and have more fun with moving their bodies in funky ways.

dancing is not as much of a bonding issue as it is a competitive issue in many cases. So, when dancing, people might get the feeling they are inferior if they believe in the competitive structure and see someone dancing better than them.

That totally goes with the whole idea of people feeling like they need to be "taught" how to dance "well". Its a travesty IMO.
It seems like "battle" dancing with those huge circles totally enforces this idea! Having a circle form on the dancefloor is always a sure way to make sure that hardly any one dances.

Anytime I am around a circle I try my hardest to make as many people surrounding it to jump in and start dancing. It does actually work! Some people just need more prodding than others.

Maybe another solution is instead of people being taught by skilled dancers is that they just need a cheerleader to get them moving.

[Cedwyn]

werd to Ishkur - sometimes the music simply does not move my boo-tay!

and bsweet - indeed, grooving cannot be taught. I couldn't teach anybody to dance like me, nor would I want to. But if teaching somebody a move or two gets them over some mental trip of "I can't dance," then great! My sister is one of those people - convinced she has no rhythm, etc.

Another reason I sometimes don't dance is because I am a hopeless people-watcher. I love observing scenes and the people within them. And there are a lot of lovely people to get to know at these things.

I also think that a lot of people are not comfortable with music they don't "know." I understand that the fun of a groove is just being carried along by it, but if someone believes they can't dance, that is a scary prospect.

Huggles - rock on wit yo self! I don't know how ANYBODY feels entitled to tell somebody they can't dance. Were those fools dancing?

I hope they are reading this....@#$%&* vibe nazis.....

another $.02

[Jacob Trance]

Glad to see I got a lot great responses on this so far! :)

As for dancing lessons go (IrisSilverMoon and bsweet), I think the main problem is that while some people want to learn how to dance because they accept the "good dancer = more attention and/or better self-esteem" concept, others reject the concept because they believe in more of a diverse and freestyle dancing concept. So the two belief systems clash.

What I would suggest to help solve this is for the "good dancer" - believers to try to understand that the freestylers don't want to be judged based on how they dance. I'd also suggest for the freestylers to try not to judge the "good dancer"- believers for wanting attention (because we want it at times) or for wanting to improve their self-esteem by dancing better. Of course, learning to dance in order to be "number one" or to be "the best" supports a hierarchal system of dancing. So, I think that those supporting the hierarchy system and openly judge not-so-good dancers as inferior to them should be criticized for creating a set of values on people based on how they dance, especially when they create it at events that are trying to promote an egalitarian structure. If someone wants to learn how to dance, I think that's great. But he or she shouldn't put others down in the process.

D'oh! Mom is yelling at me to clean the house. I'll try to reply to the rest later.

-jacob

[E ternalsAngel]

for me... i like to dance in any crowd perferably one that is givin me the vibe to wanna shake my booty .. if i dont feel the secure vibe i wont dance i will observe
example of a non viby crowd people who just stand there and stare at the dj like there too good to dance.

Angelina

[Lu$HuZ]

I understand all your viewpoints on not being able to teach someone how to groove...but you know almost all of you think a lot of people look like idiots when they are "dancing" by jumping up and down with glowsticks furiously, swaying in circles, etc.!!! Whether or not you make your feelings vocal, the fact remains that a lot of people would laugh their asses off/ become extremely embarrassed if they could see themselves in a mirror. This is because they don't dance enough on their own a.k.a. practice!

In the end though, it's all irrelevant because dancing in a swarm of bodies is a great way to have a trancendental experience...feel completely in synch with the universe.

[BBKahuna]

Basically, when I'm at parties I kind of shuffle around regardless of what I'm doing, but how long and how hard I dance depends on when/for how long I hit my groove. It just takes a few simple things for me to get in a groove: plenty of room, good music, some fresh air. Other things are nice like seeing my friends dance, watching some other cool dancers etc. but aren't really necessary. Once I find a groove, I keep in it for quite a bit, although I might take breaks and go socialize (esp since I'm in a great mood when I hit a grooce). Now, I don't have to get into the swing of things at a party to have a good time. I had a BLAST at parts of Science Friction (although admittedly other parts suck) just hanging out, chatting, getting to meet new people, getting to know other people better, etc.

I've also noticed that I when I DON'T dance at all its generally because of a few things: The longer I party, the more the ultra-fucked up kiddies bother me. They bump into me, they elbow me, and the thing I absolutely CANNOT stand, once I finally find some room to dance, they walk right in front of me and then just stand there. Also, when you go to a party and there are like 24573574 people sitting bombed out right smack in the middle of a dance floor, I don't want to be a part of that, I'd rather walk somewhere else or stay against the wall and chat. Actually, now that I think about it, the e-tarded people fucking with my dance space is most of why I don't attend Naf anymore, and I must say I'm not really missing it, just the people who go there.
Finally, when someone is trainwrecking a bunch, or doing something absurd like spinning happy hardcore at 5am, I HAVE to walk to another room, I can't stand listening to that.

Later,
BBKahuna

[Ryebread]

Huggles, the lack of fog makes having any lighting basically pointless...

That said, too much fog is worse than none. It can border on sublime and you'll still get the effect you need.

I about kicked the sound/lighting tech. in the head at the party I threw. Right before he left (he was only there to set up) he turned the fog up as high as he could... It was so bad it was causing the people downstairs, in a completely seperate part of the building, problems. I feel sorry for asthmatics and whatnot that have to deal with it, not to mention the fact that you're basically inhaling mineral oil - can't be too good in large quantities. I had to open the door and put a fan in it for around 15 minutes to get it to clear out enough to be bareable, and it took another hour or so to be where I would have liked it...

-Ryan

[HUGGLES]

Huggles - rock on wit yo self! I don't know how ANYBODY feels entitled to tell somebody they can't dance. Were those fools dancing?

Actually they weren't... Figures, doesn't it? I don't know why I let it bothered me. Actually, any negative vibe at a party bothers be. It doesn't belong there. I don't rememember seeing much of it when I first started going to parties but maybe the awe of the scene distracted me...

Huggles, the lack of fog makes having any lighting basically pointless...

I personaly like black lights and they really don't need fog for their effect to rock. Except the whole yellow teeth thing, gawd, I could live forever without that effect. *grin*

And actually I really don't agree with you much anyway. I've been to parties with great lighting and decorations with no fog machines. You just gotta' be artistic about how you decorate. If you need fog to make your lights cool, I think that is your first problem.

Besides that I *LOVE* *LOVE* *LOVE* lazer shows, seriously, if there is a good lazer show at a party you know I'll be fabulous with that! =)

Alright, alright, sorry. This post is totally off the main topic. I've enjoyed reading everyone else's responses.

I have a question about your post BBKahuna... Has NAF gotten worse lately? I haven't been there in quite awhile now. I think the last time I was there was sometime last year. Anyway, I usually find in the main room that there is plent of room to dance. Yeah, there are people sitting around but I can usually find a spot to kick it.

Another thing that I think people are missing is they get SO pissed when they get elbowed or whatever. Well come on, get real. If you're at a party with hundreds or thousands of people, you're going to get bumped. I always make it a point to apologize and smile when I'm bumped whether or not it is my fault and then the other person will see if it WAS there fault that they should be more careful.

Great posts people. =)

[BBKahuna]

Just a few answers to some questions you asked Huggles:
Originally posted by HUGGLES:
<STRONG>Has NAF gotten worse lately? I haven't been there in quite awhile now. I think the last time I was there was sometime last year. Anyway, I usually find in the main room that there is plent of room to dance. Yeah, there are people sitting around but I can usually find a spot to kick it.</STRONG>

I don't really have a gauge to judge Naf by as I've only been partying since New Years. I can however tell you that each Naf party I've been to has been progressively worse than the one before it. Also, I will admit that it is possible to find room to dance in the main room, but it always ends up being either near the back where the sound is the worst, or when you actually find a decent spot up front/in the middle, it suddenly becomes the exit path out :( Well that, or some dork decides to stand right in front of you and stare at the DJ with glazed eyes.

Onto the next thing:
[qb]
Another thing that I think people are missing is they get SO pissed when they get elbowed or whatever. Well come on, get real. If you're at a party with hundreds or thousands of people, you're going to get bumped. I always make it a point to apologize and smile when I'm bumped whether or not it is my fault and then the other person will see if it WAS there fault that they should be more careful. QB]

I agree with you in the general sense. I bump/get bumped several times every party I go to. It really doesn't bother me in the least when its just an accident or when people apologize (even if they are rolling their asses off) but my experience at Naf has been that people just get to fucking high, and added to the fact that the Naf crowd is far from considerate, you just end up with a bunch of blank-faced people running into me, not apologizing, and even at the last party pushing me out of the way so they could drop acid (and you better believe I grabbed their vial as they were about to open it and tossed it about twenty feet). Frankly, I'm just tired of inconsiderate ravers who only care about getting high and could give a fuck less about the music. The highest percentage of those seem to me to be at Naf, hence I don't go there anymore. *quick warning, I DO understand that not all Naf-goers are like this, it simply seems the highest percentage are there*

Later,
BBKahuna (Who slays drama with formidable skill)

[groovinkim]

Huggles, the lack of fog makes having any lighting basically pointless...

that's not true.. they can use mist machines. mist machines make the lights look great but you don't have to breathe that crap.

[Jacob Trance]

*me perks up* Are these mist machines available anywhere?

-jacob

p.s. I've been writing a response to those who have replied, but haven't finished it yet...it's saved in microsoft doc. for now. Keep discussing though. :)

[fruitfly]

First, I have to say, if someone is getting into the music, there is NO REASON to criticize how they are dancing. It's just plain mean, and you have no right AT ALL to make fun of how people have fun or feel the same music and vibe that you are supposedly all about.
As far as reasons for not dancing, my own personal reasons include:

1) being slightly antisocial
2) being physically unable to dance for very long/very well (really uncoordinated, back problems, worked all day, what have you)
3) annoyed by the crowd

I've gotten better at being less jaded/irritated with everyone that stands right on me or shoves by me, as long as there is some respect involved, but sometimes I really get overwhelmed by how good the music is and want to be able to really listen to it without concentrating on dancing without looking like a commplete idiot. Also, I really do get tired very quickly, since I go sober and usually after a long day of work.
Also, I should point out that I usually dance to drum and bass/jungle, where it's acceptable to freak out over the music and the basslines and not worry about any fancy moves.

Ok, just my (drunken) opinion
:D

[sonic::bionic]

I don't dance because I don't like it. I can dance, but I just don't like it. What the fuck I go to parties for is to hear music/mixes that I don't hear at home. I'm more interested in actually listening to the music, and the mixing, which I can't do when I dance. You just sort of get lost when you're dancing, and can't give the music the in-depth attention that I like to give it.

[Kid_E_Q]

A couple months ago, I might agree with you that kids aren't dancing as much anymore. But when I went out this past weekend, I noticed a lot more kids dancing. Kids that I've never really noticed before. I think the sudden increase of kids from exhibition center massives brought in a new wave of kids. And it took a while for them to really learn what parties are about. But there will eventually be more dancing!

Quin

[INsane party kid]

here are my reasons:

1.more than half the people to go to naf each weekend just go to get fucked up and just sit there in puddles!
2.some people just want to go and enjoy the music
3.some people are just tired and want a little rest before dancing agian later
4.some people like to talk so much that they rather talk most of the night than dance (like me, sometimes!)
5.well there's a bunch of reasons, go ask some people next time when you see them standing around