would you ever condone a "justified" suicide?

[A\ex]

imagine a person you knew well came to you and asked you if you would have a discussion with them concerning their existence in this life. then imagine that they were able to justify their position in both your and their opinions. would you allow them to go through with it knowing all of this?

here's the story less vague: a friend of mine is very very unhappy with himself at this time in his life. he's always kind of been this way, but lately it's gone critical. he is unemployed, not getting along well with the womens, and just overall very depressed. he doesn't feel that his situation can be remedied either. he has never tried counciling to my knowledge, but he doesn't htink that will help either. basicly he suffers from very very low confidence.

now this hasn't actually happened yet, but i know he's a very argumentative/discussionary person. i feel this may come to pass as he has talked of suicide before, not sure if he was joking or not. now i'm not leaning either way yet, but basicly, i'm the type of person that can get convinced of things. and i'm just wondering whether you guys feel it's "right" or "wrong" to allow a person to kill themself if that's what they truly want to do, and you realize that.

commentary please..

Alex

[~Bliss~]

he is unemployed, not getting along well with the womens, and just overall very depressed.

Those are no reasons whatsoever to want to kill yourself. Everyone goes through this at one or more points in their life. You need to buck up and help your friend realize he's not the only one with problems.

Justified Suicide?
The ONLY story I know of that fits this bill relates to my friend Jess's cousin.
She was born to later find out (when she was more responsive) that she had constant migraines. Her dad (who was a doctor) switched fields into something related to headache type stuff. They tried everything from the normal remedies, home remedies, experimental processes, etc etc. Finally, a few years ago when she was 16 she blew her head off with a shotgun.

Now that is suicide worthy. Imagine spending your life with a migraine. :eek:

K

[StarSweet]

hmmm, it helps when you have someone to talk too. Your friend, how long has he been unhappy? You say his whole life, there must've been times when he was happy? I know a lot of people who have seriously tried --and almost got their wish.
One of my friends went with counciling, and she swears by it, and the other went with medication. A lot of times this is a situation that has absolutely nothing to do with the person, but their history and their chemistry, many psychologists are finding that bipolar disorder, or manic depression. I would highly consider telling my friend that they have plenty of options and if you are really worried express that to him and tell him how much he will be missed. Maybe he will go for help on his own, whatever you do always be there for him, it is the best thing you could ever do, never let him think he is alone.

[tallcan]

I've always felt that if someone wants to kill themselves because they've killed someone else (especially multiple people) I'm ok with that.

I think that's the only instance that comes to mind where I dont mind seeing a suicide occur.

I dunno though. I'm all about personal rights.

if someone wants to kill themself and it doesn't harm anyone else, and it's really what they want to do (not like you really get too many second chances with stuff like that) who's to tell them they cant?

You might not agree with their decision, but it is thier life and their decision.

[Sky Scream]

It's extremely likely that your friend is suffering from biochemical depression due to emotional circumstances...meaning that, he is experiencing something more CHEMICAL than a situation based in reality. Although I am often on the brink, It's easier for me to make these decisions when observing a person outside of myself; if someone suffers from severe clinical depression, they are not seeing things as they really are, they CAN'T. Your friend thinks that his life has already ended and that it's pointless to continue the charade, when in reality, he may not be as capable of coping with relatively common impediments as other people. Losing a job and experiencing a lack of success with the opposite sex is NOT a justification for one's own demise that can be quantized and logically explained like you said he has.

If he's had a history of general sadness and disenthusia with life, then he's a prime case for clinical depression or some such other disorder.

More than anything, he may need medication, if not therapy.

Just understand that, doubting your worth on an existential level and being followed by an everpresent sadness can be terrifying.

Suicide is often a course of action responsible for the deaths of more than one. I'm still trying to formulate my own stance on how logical or acceptable it is...

love,
seth

[Mike S]

In this case its wrong. Suicide of this sort may end his pain on this plane of existance but it will be the begining of a lifetime of pain for everyone who loves him.. his parents, siblings, friends..and especially you.
If you are serious in that you think he's considering suicide you shouldn't be taking a God damn poll on nwtekno about it ...your ass should be over at his families house or on the phone with them NOW explaining the situation to them and saving his fucking life. He may hate you for doing it but that is irrelivant when what you are doing is right.

I'm sorry to be so harsh.. but Jesus Christ your sitting here discussing a human being killing themselves and whether or not it's right or wrong.
We have ALL gone through this type of stuff at a young age and there is a reason life throws adversity at us..its so we will learn and evolve and be better people who can deal with life challenges in a manner that is beneficial to ourselves and those around us.. not detrimental like suicide is.

Mike

[Mike S]

Thats just it ...its not your life. You and who you are are the "property" of those who love you and because of that you cant say that killing yourself only destroys your life. It destroys everyones life who you are a part of. So no its not your life and your choice. The ONLY exception I believe there is to this is in the case of doctor assisted, family consented euthenasia where the person choosing death does so being fully aware of the choice they are making and the family fully consents out of compassion.

MS



Originally posted by yowzers
I've always felt that if someone wants to kill themselves because they've killed someone else (especially multiple people) I'm ok with that.

I think that's the only instance that comes to mind where I dont mind seeing a suicide occur.

I dunno though. I'm all about personal rights.

if someone wants to kill themself and it doesn't harm anyone else, and it's really what they want to do (not like you really get too many second chances with stuff like that) who's to tell them they cant?

You might not agree with their decision, but it is thier life and their decision.

[SunshineGirlie]

the only "justified" ones i can think of are the murdered/rapist one.. and then the terminally ill patients who opt for dotor asst. suicide... as in they are in so much pain and they only have *insert # days/months here* to live that they just want to die now, to stop the hurting.

as someone else said, the woman troubles and no job are hardly reasons to kill yourself IMO. recently, i got fired from my job, was in hella trouble, having to pay fines and things that i couldnt afford, in the process of losing my relationship, etc, but never did i think "oh, maybe i should just end it all." to me, that just doesnt seem right.

a couple of years ago, i thought long and hard about what it would be like to just not be here anymore. and i seriously contemplated doing it, because it would just be better if i wasnt around, and didnt have to go through my day to day life. but i knew i could never bring myself to do it. and i look at who i've become since then, the people i've met, the things i've done, and i realized that i would have missed all that had i committed suicide.

maybe it doesnt seem like at this moment your friend has much to live for. but how does he know what the future holds? there might be a job waiting, if he would send in a resume, or answer an ad.... and maybe there will be a beautiful co-worker who falls madly in love with him. and maybe if that is what he really wants, he wont be depressed anymore. and maybe it wont happen. but if you arent here, how are you going to find out? you only have one life. you might as well live it.

"There will have to deal with uncomfortable issues whether you want to or not, but in times to come will realize that it was for the best, or the only way you could have grown."

good luck..
*Desiree*

[A\ex]

never considered the fact that he could be incapable of dianosing himself Sky Scream, good point.
Originally posted by Mike S
In this case its wrong. Suicide of this sort may end his pain on this plane of existance but it will be the begining of a lifetime of pain for everyone who loves him.. his parents, siblings, friends..and especially you.a lot of people make the argument that it's selfish of a person to kill themselves. personally i think it's selfish to NOT allow them to kill themselves because it will "hurt those around them." shoudl a person be made to endure a life they they do not enjoy for the sole purpose of satisfying those around them? who is really to be the judge of what happiness they can possibly glean from their futures other than THEM?

[Mike S]

Well if we were solitary creatures who lived by ourselves with out contact with or influence on other creatures your argument might be valid but we're not so its not. Life is not all happy and fun... and there's a reason for that. Also what may seem unbearable now in hindsight usually comes off as trivial.
What I've found to be a major factor in ones own misery is perspective or a lack of it to be specific.
Allot of the time people are focussing on their missfortune and not on the lesson such missfortune will teach you..lessons which allow you to be free from such missfortune now and in the future.

Mike


Originally posted by A\ex
never considered the fact that he could be incapable of dianosing himself Sky Scream, good point.
a lot of people make the argument that it's selfish of a person to kill themselves. personally i think it's selfish to NOT allow them to kill themselves because it will "hurt those around them." shoudl a person be made to endure a life they they do not enjoy for the sole purpose of satisfying those around them? who is really to be the judge of what happiness they can possibly glean from their futures other than THEM?

[A\ex]

Originally posted by Mike S
Well if we were solitary creatures who lived by ourselves with out contact with or influence on other creatures your argument might be valid but we're not so its not. Life is not all happy and fun... and there's a reason for that. ok but what if you want life to be all happy and fun, and it isn't? what if you truly can't find happiness in anything immediately apparent to you? should you hold out for x amount of time witht he potential to find something you really enjoy in mind? i mean we're talking about chemical imbalances here, so what if there's a person who really is chemically balanced, and thinking clearly, but they seriously do not find life to be "something they want to do?" and you can't say that's impossible when all things are right and proper, because i truly feel that not everyone has a calling in life.

[Cephiros]

I don't think there is suicide is justified unless for suffering patients with terminal illness. Bad luck with the opposite sex, unemployment are part of everyday life. I used to feel depressed alot in the past, about the same exact things but I never thought about killing myself. I've felt the pain of lost love but I never thought about killing myself. I find writing down my thoughts and feelings is really good self-help, at least for me.

Zander

[Mike S]

My friend that is part of what life's about.. The thing is you dont "hold out" for anything.. You HAVE to work for it. Nothings handed to you and nothing is guaranteed. Not even ultimate happiness. Some might say why work for something that might not be there.. My answer is this.. That is why its so impoprtant to figure out what it is you love in life and work towards it because you get just as much joy in working to achieve what ever it is you love as you do achieving it. I know this sounds so cliche but there's a reason some cliches exhist... because they are true.

And life can never be ALL happy and fun because we and everything around us evolve and progress as a reaction to some adversity that we need to overcome. Thats the natural order of things.

MS

Originally posted by A\ex
ok but what if you want life to be all happy and fun, and it isn't? what if you truly can't find happiness in anything immediately apparent to you? should you hold out for x amount of time witht he potential to find something you really enjoy in mind?

[Tecknowledgy]

Chances are if he's discussing it with you it will not take place. This is what is known as a cry for help. He just needs a friend right now, so you better be there for him.

No, I do not condone suicide.

how could you live with yourself knowing you let your friend take his life?

[Sky Scream]

Though what Mike S is saying definitely rings true in a very "realist" understanding of life and life's values, this is not the way that a person stricken with a total uncertainty about life would want things explained to he or she.

People who haven't learned how to cope with the "hard times" that come their way in life aren't "bad people"; they may be predisposed to experience things in a much more emotionally and experiencially detrimental way.

You can't tell someone as depressed as Alex's friend is to buck up and deal with the hard lessons that life brings because he'll think that it's his fault that life is painful, and that hence he should be destroyed. I'm sure there's a large element of personal and confusing guilt involved in it.

If this guy's been in this mindset his entire life, then he probably doesen't even KNOW that an oppositional realm of understanding, peace, and happiness exists due to the capacity of human consciousness to perservere through turmoil and then learn from it. Unless there is something biologically wrong with him that goes beyond the call of modern psychiatric science, it can be spectulated that there is a way to make him see another side of life, thus, it isn't "justifiable" for him to take his own life at the moment.

[A\ex]

wow man, i think you seriously just ended the discussion right there:) i don't want to disuade any of you who actually read the contents of the thread before posting, from posting though, because i want many many opinions here. so post away, please!!

second question: what route would you suggest i take as far as remedying this situation? i'm looking for more of a detailed response too. not just "make him see a psychiatrist." where do i go? is there funding available? (he is not financially sound)

[tallcan]

Originally posted by 2cB
Chances are if he's discussing it with you it will not take place. This is what is known as a cry for help. He just needs a friend right now, so you better be there for him.
right on. I'm relatively sure you're correct here.

Originally posted by Mike S
Thats just it ...its not your life. You and who you are are the "property" of those who love you and because of that you cant say that killing yourself only destroys your life. It destroys everyones life who you are a part of. So no its not your life and your choice. The ONLY exception I believe there is to this is in the case of doctor assisted, family consented euthenasia where the person choosing death does so being fully aware of the choice they are making and the family fully consents out of compassion.
The end of your life doesn't have to "destroy
everyones life who you are a part of," it's their choice whether or not to make the end your life something that destroys their life.
When someone dies you have to choice of whether or not you're going to let it get you down. Lets say 10000 afghanis die in an earthquake. you have to choice to let it effect you or not. While in a small way it does ultimeatly have some effect on you it probably wont end up 'destroying' your life. OK, so maybe you're thinking that was a bad example....maybe nobody you care about died.
So....what if you're brother gets hit by a car and dies? Is that likely to effect you more? I'd say so. But is your life 'destroyed' from that moment on? I doubt it. You learn to deal with the harsh things that sometimes happen during life on this planet.
now....what if that brother ran out in front of that car on purpose so that he would die (maybe not the most likely of scenerios....but, hey...it could happen) is your life ultimately more affected than before when it was an accident?
I dont really think so. Maybe you'll feel like you could have done more to help your bro during his life so that suicidal tendencies never crossed his mind. Too bad. It doesn't matter the end result is the same. You mourn...and then you get over it.

dont try to sell any "destroying life" stuff.
I have close friends who have committed suicide. It's really sad, but you have to realize that they are gone and that's that. You deal with it in your own way, and you're life is not 'destroyed' or whatever.

[Mike S]

OK well speaking from experience unfortunately yes I think it does destroy whether we want it to or not and there's no "just dealing" with it. When you lose a family member a day never goes by when the loss doesn't effect you. Not only does it destroy what is now but it destroys everything that could be with that person. What could have been with you in regards to that person and shared experiences, what that person may have contributed to the world in general and your world in particular, what that person may have created..WHO that person may have created.. it goes on and on. When you look at everything that is possible with one person then what that persons premature or self inflicted death destroys is almost obscene. And yeah life does obligate you to deal with the sudden death of a loved one just like it obligates you to save a loved one from dying..or killing themself.

Mike


Originally posted by yowzers

right on. I'm relatively sure you're correct here.


The end of your life doesn't have to "destroy
everyones life who you are a part of," it's their choice whether or not to make the end your life something that destroys their life.
When someone dies you have to choice of whether or not you're going to let it get you down. Lets say 10000 afghanis die in an earthquake. you have to choice to let it effect you or not. While in a small way it does ultimeatly have some effect on you it probably wont end up 'destroying' your life. OK, so maybe you're thinking that was a bad example....maybe nobody you care about died.
So....what if you're brother gets hit by a car and dies? Is that likely to effect you more? I'd say so. But is your life 'destroyed' from that moment on? I doubt it. You learn to deal with the harsh things that sometimes happen during life on this planet.
now....what if that brother ran out in front of that car on purpose so that he would die (maybe not the most likely of scenerios....but, hey...it could happen) is your life ultimately more affected than before when it was an accident?
I dont really think so. Maybe you'll feel like you could have done more to help your bro during his life so that suicidal tendencies never crossed his mind. Too bad. It doesn't matter the end result is the same. You mourn...and then you get over it.

dont try to sell any "destroying life" stuff.
I have close friends who have committed suicide. It's really sad, but you have to realize that they are gone and that's that. You deal with it in your own way, and you're life is not 'destroyed' or whatever.

[Mike S]

Start with his family first.
And yeah there are plenty of outreach groups that deal with suicide/crisis prevention. Some people have a real hard time going to those, usualy out of pride, but once there they see they arent alone and that there are people who not only undertstand their problems, sometimes first hand, but also really want to help.

Good luck

Mike

Originally posted by A\ex
wow man, i think you seriously just ended the discussion right there:) i don't want to disuade any of you who actually read the contents of the thread before posting, from posting though, because i want many many opinions here. so post away, please!!

second question: what route would you suggest i take as far as remedying this situation? i'm looking for more of a detailed response too. not just "make him see a psychiatrist." where do i go? is there funding available? (he is not financially sound)

[foofy]

i think any type of suicide is "justified" in the sense that i think every creature has the right to terminate their own life.

do i think its a good idea for your friend to kill himself? no, probably not. not having a job and not getting booty dont seem like particularly compelling reasons to off yourself.

this is just my opinion mind you, but if i were in your shoes, id just let him know that there are people that love him, think about him, depend on him and would very much like it if he stuck around. if it seems like he would benefit from therapy, sure, go for it.

i still think its his right to end it if he really wants to though.

[HexRei]

When you look at everything that is possible with one person then what that persons premature or self inflicted death destroys is almost obscene. And yeah life does obligate you to deal with the sudden death of a loved one just like it obligates you to save a loved one from dying..or killing themself.

So then, Mike, if you have no one that cares about you, anywhere, is it ok to kill yourself? What if people really HATE you? like you're john wayne gacy or something?

And since when it is it a human right to not feel sad? and since when did you care about hurting others *feelings* anyway? Arent conservatives supposed to be against frivolous legislation?

This is clearly one of those bizarre paradoxes arises from pragmatic, business-oriented, reasonable conservatives bowing to the power of the far religious right.

[seraphin]

i dont know if a lot of people on this board have dealt with suicide. when you have a loved one/best friend/ family member threatening to kill themselves it is impossible to describe the pressure and feeling of helplessness that is thrust on you. you panic whenever you have to leave them alone. you argue with them for hours that life i worth living, yet they rebuke you at every turn, you feel hopeless. you cant sleep and when you do you dream of their funeral. yet you cant really comprehend someone klling themselves because you are upbeat and enjoy life and you wan tto give them that gift, but its not that easy.

Originally posted by foofy
[B
i still think its his right to end it if he really wants to though. [/B]

if you are suicidal seek professional help-- tell people how you feel, and let them help you. yes it is your right to take your life, but personally i see it as selfish and cowardly. it isnt political, it isnt religious. i just cannot imagine giving up theyre or infinite options available to obtain happiness

<end tangent>

*sorry if that was too obscure:(

[Mike S]

Well its not too bizarre for most of us because most of us dont live in the same petty stereo type induced and perpetuated void you call reality.

What little sense your post makes I'll try to understand and respond too..Regarding your fist question. No its not. Regarding your second question. Not applicable. JWG wasn't a normal thinking human being and in fact probably fed off of hate and fear.
If you want a strange hex try this.. I abhore people taking their own life because it destroys all the possibilities of what that person may create and become.. but i'm all for taking the life of someone like JWG because what they have created and become is someone who takes those things from others.

MS


Originally posted by HexRei


So then, Mike, if you have no one that cares about you, anywhere, is it ok to kill yourself? What if people really HATE you? like you're john wayne gacy or something?

And since when it is it a human right to not feel sad? and since when did you care about hurting others *feelings* anyway? Arent conservatives supposed to be against frivolous legislation?

This is clearly one of those bizarre paradoxes arises from pragmatic, business-oriented, reasonable conservatives bowing to the power of the far religious right.

[Mike S]

Well said.

MS

Originally posted by seraphin

i dont know if a lot of people on this board have dealt with suicide. when you have a loved one/best friend/ family member threatening to kill themselves it is impossible to describe the pressure and feeling of helplessness that is thrust on you. you panic whenever you have to leave them alone. you argue with them for hours that life i worth living, yet they rebuke you at every turn, you feel hopeless. you cant sleep and when you do you dream of their funeral. yet you cant really comprehend someone klling themselves because you are upbeat and enjoy life and you wan tto give them that gift, but its not that easy.



if you are suicidal seek professional help-- tell people how you feel, and let them help you. yes it is your right to take your life, but personally i see it as selfish and cowardly. it isnt political, it isnt religious. i just cannot imagine giving up theyre or infinite options available to obtain happiness

<end tangent>

*sorry if that was too obscure:(

[HexRei]

I'm not making sense? wtf does this cryptic babble mean?

If you want a strange hex try this..

Anyway, caring and loving doesn't suit you. You can't advocate carpet bombings of foreign populations and then turn around and say we should make laws to save people who WANT to kill themselves. Fucking hypocrite.

Well its not too bizarre for most of us because most of us dont live in the same petty stereo type induced and perpetuated void you call reality.

What little sense your post makes I'll try to understand and respond too..Regarding your fist question. No its not. Regarding your second question. Not applicable. JWG wasn't a normal thinking human being and in fact probably fed off of hate and fear.
If you want a strange hex try this.. I abhore people taking their own life because it destroys all the possibilities of what that person may create and become.. but i'm all for taking the life of someone like JWG because what they have created and become is someone who takes those things from others.

[Mike S]

Where did I say I advocate such laws?.. If you'd take the time to read my posts you might see I'm for doctor assited suicide under certain conditions. Typical knee jerk hex responce.
And the hypocrisy you speak of is often reffered to as one of mans great dichotomies. How one can love and value the life of some so much that he is even willing to take the life of another to protect it. Philosophers have been debating that from day 1 hex.. pull your head out of your ass and join the discussion instead of reducing yourself to some useless heckler on the lifes sidelines yelling hypocrite at people and situations you mistakenly think you understand.

And yeah that sentance in my previous post did come off weird by my leaving the letter 'a' there mistakenly.

Have a good night hex.
MS

Originally posted by HexRei
I'm not making sense? wtf does this cryptic babble mean?



Anyway, caring and loving doesn't suit you. You can't advocate carpet bombings of foreign populations and then turn around and say we should make laws to save people who WANT to kill themselves. Fucking hypocrite.

[Sky Scream]

Since when did this discussion become another forum for more totally absurd political shit baths? I thought we were talking about how to deal with someone's emotions...

[tallcan]

'Mike S' is all 'bout shit baths.

[DJ Rawkus]

While the rest of you careen toward Mike with scabbards ready to cut him off at the knees at anything you disagree with...someone is in a state of emotional upheaval and seeking help. His friend has then taken a huge leap of faith and posted this scenario on NWT of all places and expects to get some answers before he's awoken some morning to bad news. Now I don't know about the rest of you shmucks but this pretty much says it all: If this guy's been in this mindset his entire life, then he probably doesn't even KNOW that an oppositional realm of understanding, peace, and happiness exists due to the capacity of human consciousness to perservere through turmoil and then learn from it. ..I would tell your friend exactly that. If he is in this much pain over this kinda stuff, then give him the "every action has a reaction" speech. Tell him there's got to be an opposite amount of joy in response to this time of dark, and if he struggles for it, he will find it. I know that thru my 'adventures with suicide', i figured death was a better option and things would get happier. But it seemed so far off and not worth waiting for in the long run. It was the ultimate selfish bullheaded crap i ever thought about in my life. I finally came to the conclusion that suicide is not a perm solution to a temp problem, but a temp solution to a perm problem. I would go on existing, and that's not what i wanted to do. I wanted to be done with it all. I got off my duff and tackled life by the horns, and thru that found some answers instead of taking the pussy way out and killing myself. I worked for my position, instead of "waiting it out". I trust that whatever you do, you will not only be wise in how you word things. but you will be blunt honest and nimble quick about it. The last thing he needs is someone tenderfootin' around the issues and waiting for the "right answers" from a bunch of ravers. Hit every nook and cranny in his life if you haven't already, and for godssake people, look at the big picture and lay off Mike already. :rolleyes:

[Amity]

Suicide is not okay.. Maybe assisted due to medical problems.. There's just too much out there.. and how can we determin right now at this point that we want it to end? Who's to say this kid in three months isn't going to win the lottery and find the woman of his dreams.. or whatever it is that he thinks will make him happy. Suicide is selfish and there are better ways of getting attention... what about his family? Other people that love him?

When I get down.. I always think about the BILLIONS of other people that have it WAY worse than I do..

I wish this guy the best. I've lost two really close friends.. one kinda suicide (drug overdose) and one really blatent suicide... and I'm sure they both second think what's been done now that they know how people reacted, and how much they were loved... dollar short, day late..

Life ain't easy, but it sure is purty... :p

[s1n]

suicide is the long term answer to short term problems.

[**BISCUIT**]

yup......
very nicely put s1n....

[nouseforaname]

no
freinds dont let friends kill themselves

[seraphin]

sorry for the platitude...but its scientifically proven that for every bad day there is an equal number of good...

*im waiting to cash in on mine*;)

i have a question for ya? what do you say, to a family member on the other side of the states, who feels as if he should end it because hes 26 and only had one girlfriend and he cant get a job as a lawyer, and all he cares about is material possessions?

[EviLreD]

same thing. Get over yourself - suicide is nothing if it isn't selfish. So, you think you have a shit life? Killing yourself just proves that you deserved it, that you weren't willing to give anything back to the world that gave you life.

[Sky Scream]

Wait, so this person is a bastard for even HAVING suicidal thoughts?

[lady.don't.tek.no]

this past weekend i had two employees kill themselves... one of them made it a point to call me saturday nite before i went to the hedonist party.. he was being really cryptic and i thought everything was ok.. saturday was my bday too.. i just dont understand. i am taking this very personally.. yesterday i had to make the hardest phone calls ever.. my heart hurts, my head hurts... all i can wonder is why... what did i not do right???????


heartbroken in bellevue

[A\ex]

thank you everyone:)
i have made note of your comments and ideas. i'm not sure if we've answered my question really, but that's ok. the important thing is that i have an effective way to approach this now.

[LunaLizz]

i really dont think it is ok...we all have out trials in life, but , geez. i mean, im sorry but that makes me a little angry. life is hard, it wasn't meant to be easy for most of us, and that just seems like such a cowardly thing to do....not that alot of us havent had our thoughts of suicide but, ...well..
i have tried.
i have been in the hospital twice.
i used to have very little confidance, respect, love, or faith in/for myself.
somehow, somewhere along the line, i realized that, yes, life is very hard, sometimes overwhelmingly unbearably hard. but i am a strong enough person to survive. i am a good enough person to prevail through some really tough times.
i have enough friends that truly love and cherish me and understand me that life isn't qwite as dismal as it used to be.
i think as a frend, you should encourage him to find something, anything, that brings him happiness and focus on that. go from there. rememeber, if there is something u dont like in your life, only you can change it, and it is possible.
be that friend that can make the difference.
and maybe he needs some happy melodic trance as well, thats been a very spiritual opening for me.
there is hope(it sounds cheesy)but for realz.
i hope my ramblings help a little.
peace, love, empathy forever <3 lizz

[Mike S]

Damn sorry to hear youre dealing with that...wish I had something pithy and witty to say to help you but I'm sure it wouldn't.

What ever happened had NOTHING to do with you at all.

Believe that.

MS

Originally posted by snow_white
this past weekend i had two employees kill themselves... one of them made it a point to call me saturday nite before i went to the hedonist party.. he was being really cryptic and i thought everything was ok.. saturday was my bday too.. i just dont understand. i am taking this very personally.. yesterday i had to make the hardest phone calls ever.. my heart hurts, my head hurts... all i can wonder is why... what did i not do right???????


heartbroken in bellevue