An interesting view on discussion boards from Incubus.

[TeknoAXE]

Recently, 107.7 had an ends session with the band incubus. Most of their songs were done on acoustic, and a rather interesting view came up, from the band, on the topic of discussion boards and chat rooms. I wish I had some sort of transcript, so I could be more acurate in the conversation, but this is what basically went down.

The End: So aren't you guys worried that the softer stuff that you're playing now is going to piss off alot of your fans, make them not like you anymore?

Incubus: To be perfectly honest, we really don't care about what our fans say anymore. What we've learned is that your fans will stab your back in a heartbeat. If you do the same thing on your latest album that you did on your previous album, people will bitch and say you didn't do anything new and different. But if you do something different, they'll accuse you of being a sellout.

We used to log into the chat rooms and discussion boards all the time to see what our fans were thinking and at first it was cool! Here was this place for people to tell us what they thought of our music and hopefully we could give them what they wanted.

But now, we don't pay attention to any of it because whenever we log in, all we ever see are people telling us we suck, flooding our boards and chat rooms with useless spam and constant, incessent flame wars that really don't do us any good at all. It's like the openness of technology came back and bit us in the ass.


AXE

[Casey O]

Yes........we all know that paying attention to what the fans want is the least important thing when trying to keep a band successful....silly bands


C

[Roddimus]

Since when is staying successful more important than staying honest to your music?

[Skippopot2mus]

awww incubus is so wise..
:)

[DJ Rawkus]

Furthermore Jesse, since when is music supposed to be sold for the almighty dollar? In this day and age there's plenty of bands that are doing well, w/o taking a dime. That's what Internet radio and network re-broadcasting is all about.

[michellethestar69]

It's nice to support internet radio and such, but come on. If someone dangled a contract in your face and you KNEW you'd sell millions of records because of marketing and promotion and maybe just a little because of your talent, would you jump at it?

Shit, I would. Give me a million dollars and I'll become the first white girl in TLC and put out another TLC CD. Ohhh, so I creep! In my new Benz.. :D

gotta go, elimidate is on!

[DJ Rawkus]

I will say this once and only once: You sold out a loooong time ago sweetie!! Not only that, but your kind of an idiot too. 2 brownie pts. for you kid, if you take a contract and only make half the money designated in the small print (read:most of the contract) becuase the RIAA says it's ok to charge you various amounts of money to be on a label. Record companies rape not only the artist of creativity and longevity, but the consumer of money and good talent. But i guess you support that kind of thing huh?

[TurntableTruth]

hoobastank the alternative

[michellethestar69]

Originally posted by DJ Rawkus
I will say this once and only once: You sold out a loooong time ago sweetie!! Not only that, but your kind of an idiot too. 2 brownie pts. for you kid, if you take a contract and only make half the money designated in the small print (read:most of the contract) becuase the RIAA says it's ok to charge you various amounts of money to be on a label. Record companies rape not only the artist of creativity and longevity, but the consumer of money and good talent. But i guess you support that kind of thing huh?

Look, just because I talk about omnibus and Taco Del Mar commercials doesn't mean you know me well enough to call me an idiot, idiot.

You make some good points, but the music industry won't change. Longevity of what? Mainstream appeal? Many artists have been putting out music for a long time. Talent will always be there, and so will exploitation of people who are willing to allow that to happen. Like Alicia Keys and Nsync both at the Grammys. She's got talent, they are exploited. But those kids make millions off their concerts, and where would they be without the name NSYNC? Not where they are now.

[Justin]

Originally posted by michellethestar69


Look, just because I talk about omnibus and Taco Del Mar commercials doesn't mean you know me well enough to call me an idiot, idiot.

You make some good points, but the music industry won't change. Longevity of what? Mainstream appeal? Many artists have been putting out music for a long time. Talent will always be there, and so will exploitation of people who are willing to allow that to happen. Like Alicia Keys and Nsync both at the Grammys. She's got talent, they are exploited. But those kids make millions off their concerts, and where would they be without the name NSYNC? Not where they are now.

Since when is Nsync exploited? Does their manager hold a gun to their heads, saying "Suck!!!"

I agree the music industry won't change. That's why I ignore it almost entirely. It amazes me that millions of people spend twenty bucks apiece on these cds.

[michellethestar69]

Originally posted by Doc Mahem


Since when is Nsync exploited? Does their manager hold a gun to their heads, saying "Suck!!!"

I agree the music industry won't change. That's why I ignore it almost entirely. It amazes me that millions of people spend twenty bucks apiece on these cds.

Their record label makes most of the $$ for the sales. But on concerts, they clean up. Five white guys put together by the same guy as backstreet boys and otown have definitely been exploited.

[Tecknowledgy]

Fuck Incubus. Fuck them up their stupid asses.

[Roddimus]

It's nice to support internet radio and such, but come on. If someone dangled a contract in your face and you KNEW you'd sell millions of records because of marketing and promotion and maybe just a little because of your talent, would you jump at it?
Shit, I would. Give me a million dollars and I'll become the first white girl in TLC and put out another TLC CD. Ohhh, so I creep! In my new Benz..
It's exactly that same sort of thinking that is killing the music industry today.
Talent is important, but artistic integrity is what makes TRULY good music.
And no, I would not "jump at it" when offered a contract that comprimises my artistic vision. Unless I can do exactly what I want with my music there's not point in making it. I don't care HOW much money they try and throw at me.
Millions of people have talent. Few have true vision. And it's always those with true vision that are still remembered and respected years later.

[Euro]

*no comment*

why? well, being an artist myself it would be hypocritical for me to condemn what they said because in a way i agree with it... while at the same time, as a fan, i think they're full of shit. i was at their show on friday and saw so many 12 year old girls there that i thought i was at an nsync show.

i'm really torn on the subject of 'selling-out'... my life long goal is to be headlining fucking huge amphitheatres and doing world tours, while at the same time today i look at some bands and just dislike them cause they're "sellouts"...

i am a hypocrite.

I will say that incubus had a point about fans. few times are 'hardcore' fans ever truly satisfied with a band's follow up album. i heard a lot of complaints about deftones' "white pony" when it first came out. staind's "break the cycle" has gotten lots of complaints from hardcore fans, and the album was already relatively finished before they 'got huge'. BEFORE limp bizkit got huge, "significant other" came out and i didn't like it cause it was 'different'. the thing with incubus is that they are maturing, not necessarily 'selling out'. image wise, yes.

i think reel big fish said it best, "no more flppin burgers, putting on my silly hat you know i don't want that no more ... the record company's gonna give me lots of money and everything's gonna be all right..."

steve

ps: one thing i do believe is that the fans matter to an extent. the music belongs to the artist, and several artists out there are mighty content with keeping their music to themselves. the fans only really matter financially, as they're the ones buying the records, paying to see the shows, buying the t-shirts, etc. the music is something the artist is SHARING with his fans/audience, not GIVING them. i would never GIVE any of my tracks to someone. I'll write it "for" them (which is basically a dedication) however. I use my music as a way of expressing MY emotions to my audience/fans (yes, i do have some fans) in a way that simple words can't justify. It's how I bleed.

[TeknoAXE]

Since the topic deviated a little to record labels and such, I guess I better add my piece. I'd have to agree that as of this moment, signing a label contract without at least insisting on as much artistic control as humanly possible is like selling your art for a half-shadow of what it is.

I would much rather put my music on mp3.com and iuma.com and have people listen to my music rather than have some producer mutilate my sound and have it played on pop radio.

The internet is supposed to be the smallman's revenge. Where people can manage their own art/business because it is really the cheapest means of expression available.

AXE

[Justin]

Originally posted by Roddimus

It's exactly that same sort of thinking that is killing the music industry today.
Talent is important, but artistic integrity is what makes TRULY good music.
And no, I would not "jump at it" when offered a contract that comprimises my artistic vision. Unless I can do exactly what I want with my music there's not point in making it. I don't care HOW much money they try and throw at me.
Millions of people have talent. Few have true vision. And it's always those with true vision that are still remembered and respected years later.

I totally agree.

[skoiboy]

Originally posted by hex
hoobastank the alternative

Fuck hoobastank. Seriously.

Originally posted by 2cB

Fuck Incubus. Fuck them up their stupid asses.

How much of Incubus have you seen or heard?? Probably not that much. Don't make ignorant comments unless you know what you're talking about. I saw Incubus in 1996 with 311 before anyone even knew who the fuck they were. Back when Brandon had dreadlocks to his knees, when Kilmore wasn't even a part of the band, and when "You WIll Be A Hot Dancer" was there best song, because they only had like 8 songs......while I don't particularly like most of Morning View (especially the new fucking "Nice To Know You Video" on MTV, it makes them look like a fucking boy band), it is still a very well written album (aren't shrooms wonderful), and Make Yourself, S.C.I.E.N.C.E., and Enjoy Incubus fucking ROCK. So don't talk shit.

peace,
Shawn

[ThePerfectDrug]

ummmm skoiboy, in your opinion incubus is good, in someone else's they suck. Arguing opinions such a music taste is silly, lest i bring up the eternal trance vs jungle never ending debate. You like them, some people don't, and i'm wayyy to tired to bring up the opinions are like assholes comment.

Bye bye

[burnt]

Since when is Nsync exploited? Does their manager hold a gun to their heads, saying "Suck!!!"

I dunno, I hear things are pretty rough in Hollyweird. and some of those boys in those boy bands do have the dreamiest eyes...

[biscuits]

Originally posted by Doc Mahem


Since when is Nsync exploited? Does their manager hold a gun to their heads, saying "Suck!!!"


is anyone seeing this quote the same way i am?

hehe:cool:

[DJ Rawkus]

It might help to explain how you're seeing it first...

[Daz]

I support bands, but not record labels....

The Greatful dead did it best by telling their fans to bootleg all of their concerts.... THAT is sharing your music....

Music is emotion, it is spirit, it is love, hate, greed, envy, ambition, and peace... it is life.... and quite personally, I hate having to pay for those things.... they seem like they should be a normal part of life...

I love musicians.. because they share their views on those things with me... just the same way I love poets and people who speak their minds openly... but Record labels (while rewarding these musicians) make most of the money... they basically take this person's right to share their music.. and turn it into a profit.....

now.. on CONCERTS... the band makes a HUGE amount of the money... but I don't go there to just experience the music.... shit.. have you ever gone and seen a band live and they played great... but their show sucked? Concerts are the band is forced to connect with the crowd.. it shows true artist ambition... and they (I feel) should be able to profit from it if they can do it well.....


Jeff

[sothis]

all this new rock thats being played on the radio nowadays is complete cookie cutter garbage anyways. who cares what incubus thinks.

[biscuits]

Originally posted by DJ Rawkus
It might help to explain how you're seeing it first...

well im not seein it in the crappy sucky way
more like the "suck it bitch, SUCK IT!!!" way ;)

[biscuits]

oh and kim i totaly agree with ya there, i dont get how people stand listening to the shit they call rock today.

[skoiboy]

Originally posted by Daz
I support bands, but not record labels....

The Greatful dead did it best by telling their fans to bootleg all of their concerts.... THAT is sharing your music....

Music is emotion, it is spirit, it is love, hate, greed, envy, ambition, and peace... it is life.... and quite personally, I hate having to pay for those things.... they seem like they should be a normal part of life...

I love musicians.. because they share their views on those things with me... just the same way I love poets and people who speak their minds openly... but Record labels (while rewarding these musicians) make most of the money... they basically take this person's right to share their music.. and turn it into a profit.....

I could not have said this better myself......I seriously want to applaud everything Daz just posted. *CLAPS* *CLAPS*

And what I said about Incubus......I know, I'm not trying to tell anyone who they should listen to or anything, I am just trying to point out that Incubus didn't used to be pussy bitches. Selling out just happens when you make it big. Every band basically does it at some point, regardless if they want it to or not, it just happens. My friends band just got signed, so we were kind of having a discussion about it with their manager. He said that when you make it big, you sell out sometime regardless, and it mostly happens once you hit the radio. Whether the band chooses to follow the sell out road or the more rebel road is up to them.

peace,
Shawn

[NO-ESC]

Grateful dead did it right by allowing bootlegging and the only other band that i have heard of doing that these days is PHISH and they rock.

nuff said

[TeknoAXE]

Part of the reason why I brought Incubus up is the observation that they've made reguarding the internet and forumns of communication relating to the internet and how they've progressed since the early nineties, when the internet exploded into commonplace on people's desktop. It applies to this board as much as the NWTekno related IRC chat rooms as much as the rest of the internet, in how the flow of information has sort of deteriorated into spam and flamewars and various other things that don't really matter.

You can look at the websites that were once very revolutionary in terms of artistic freedom and see the difference that five to ten years make.

The best example of this is MP3.com. While local artists are still allowed to post their songs on that site, you see nothing but mainstream artists releases flooding the charts with songs ripped from their CDs. And they have to have "priority artists" that take precedence because they pay mp3.com to have their songs bumped to the top of an approval list in order for their songs to be posted to the site.

The internet really has all the tools for the small man to make it in the world full of corperate take overs of artistic expression. I've got a small ministudio that I can make songs that sound almost as well-produced as someone with a professional studio that charges lots of money to record and mix from, plus a processor that can simulate most of the effects and speaker cabinets used in studio setups, and a microphone that cost me about 50 bucks, that i've been able to adapt to the sound board i record from.

But in the end, it's up to the artists and their fans to make good use of that technology instead of falling into the trap of undercutting each other for personal gain. The problem that I see is the same that Incubus pointed out in their sessions with 107.7--that stupidity turned the internet into the biggest white elephant of ingenuity when it really didn't need to be that way.

AXE

[TeknoAXE]

But um, yah!

To toss things up a bit, we'll bring Offspring into the picture. I have an interview with them from Guitar World, and here's them on the internet, before Napster was officially killed.

Guitar World, February 2001

GW But you seem to have a definite strategy for surviving in the brave new e-economy. Basically you wanted to make your whole new album downloadable on the internet, but Sony blocked you.
DEXTER That's right. And that was a shame.
GW Are you happy with the compromise that you arrived at--to release just the single on the internet for free?
DEXTER Actually, believe it or not, we really are. Sony threatened to sue us. And we threatened to sue them back for putting out an unprotected CD. Because part of what they're supposed to be doing, in legal terms, is protecting copyrights. We thought it would end in a standoff. At the end of the day, it was gonna be a big war, I think. So we ended up just putting the single up on the internet, which we're still really stoked about. I think that it's the first time a band has been able to do that and have the label's blessing. And we're still haveing tis crazy million-dollar giveaway, which is kind of exciting.
NOODLES People at the label--Donnie Ienner and Michelle Anthony ini particular--were supportive. It was more the lawyers in the back room who wanted to make an issue of it. You have to realize the whole record is gonna be on Napster anyway.
GW Why would an artist want to give their music away for free? Not to mention giving away a million bucks of their own money on top of that?
DEXTER We wanted to put the record out on the internet because we feel the internet is promoting music. It helps you gain fans.
NOODLES In this day and age, that's exactly what it's doing. It's much the same as radio, except it has a much broader spectrum, because all your songs can be up there, not just the single.
GW But what do you gain? Information about the market? who is buying?
DEXTER We've done that with our mailing list before.
NOODLES I don't know how much of that is done over the internet. A lot of the feedback we get from surveys is from a hardcore base of Offspring fans. So it tends to be a little skewed.
DEXTER The thing is, we're not afraid of the internet. The industry seems to fear it, that it's gonna hurt them. I think they're looking at it the wrong way. They should look at it as a way to get music out. I also like the idea that we're doing this in a way that doesn't soak the fans for their last dollar; necessarily, and gives them something up front. What's that movie?
NOODLES Pay It Forward
DEXTER That's what we're doing, paying it forward!
NOODLES And we're making the internet our bitch to do it.
DEXTER That's right. The internet's our bitch.
GW But you think that, in the end, there will be a payoff?
DEXTER We do.
NOODLES We think having our music out there makes us more desirable.
GW That's what happened with "Pretty Fly."
DEXTER Exactly. It was the most downloaded record ever; over a 10-week period. It was downloaded like 22million times, and yet it was one of the best-selling records we ever had. And it's not just us. Look at the Backstreet Boys: 2.4 million records in the first week, heavily downloaded a month prior to release. Look at all the bands that are up there on the charts: heavily downloaded, yet sellion millions and millions of records. So it seems to be working the other way than everyone's claiming. No lost CD sales and all that stuff.


AXE

[Hookups]

I saw Incubus in 1996 with 311 before anyone even knew who the fuck they were.

Me too! You forgot to mention sugar ray was on that tour, but who cares. Incubus rocked it harder than any of them. Brandon's knee-length dredlocks were off the hook. It's sad to see them get popular. I don't hate any band for selling out, but imho they were far cooler before they became 'rock gods'.

[peace&love]

I've watched many a bands get bigger and bigger and yes, even sellout. But the word "sellout" is all in the fans head. Let's take Metallica for example...I've heard many say they sold out after Kill em all, and yet others say after And justice for all, and others say, after the black album. My point...they sold out before you ever heard them! For their music to be heard at the level they wanted it to be heard at, they had to sell out. They've been sellouts since the beginning and this is true with all bands. Sellout is just a term used by jaded fans to express that they think that their "favorite" band sucks ass! If you were a real fan you would listen to the content of the music as opposed to how hard it is or how soft it is.

[texas chainsaw mascara]

Originally posted by Skippopot2mus
awww incubus is so wise..
:)


mmmmmmm. . . . incubus . . . .

*drool*

[texas chainsaw mascara]

Originally posted by 2cB
Fuck Incubus. Fuck them up their stupid asses.

do you really want me to kick your fucking ass for that, or what?

[Hookups]

Maynard says it best:
Tool
Aenima (1996)
Hooker with a Penis

I met a boy wearing Vans, 501s, and a
Dope Beastie t, nipple rings, and
New tattoos that claimed that he
Was OGT,
From '92,
The first EP.

And in between
Sips of Coke
He told me that
He thought
We were sellin' out,
Layin' down,
Suckin' up
To the man.

Well now I've got some
A-dvice for you, little buddy.
Before you point the finger
You should know that
I'm the man,

And if I'm the man,
Then you're the man, and
He's the man as well so you can
Point that fuckin' finger up your ass.

All you know about me is what I've sold you,
Dumb fuck.
I sold out long before you ever heard my name.

I sold my soul to make a record,
Dip shit,
And you bought one.

So I've got some
Advice for you, little buddy.
Before you point your finger
You should know that
I'm the man,
If I'm the fuckin' man
Then you're the fuckin' man as well
So you can
Point that fuckin' finger up your ass.

All you know about me is what I've sold you,
Dumb fuck.
I sold out long before you ever heard my name.

I sold my soul to make a record,
Dip shit,
And you bought one.

All you read and
Wear or see and
Hear on TV
Is a product
Begging for your
Fatass dirty
Dollar

So...Shut up and

Buy my new record
Send more money
Fuck you, buddy.

[LunaLizz]

uh.......i see it. heh heh heh

[Euro]

w3rd to hookups :D

[skoiboy]

Hookups, you could not have said that any better than you did.

That was perfect.

peace,
Shawn

[amydivine]

"All you read and
Wear or see and
Hear on TV
Is a product
Begging for your
Fatass dirty
Dollar"


....few exceptions, such as what you read if it happens to be something slightly more literary than the latest glossy gossip mag, or if what you see is, say, an art exhibit, but the sentiment is RIGHT ON when it hits TV and commerical radio. Tool, hmmmm? who woulda thunk it.

[TriPtoNyTE]

While everybody makes some good points here, i think there is a diffrence between being successful and making some money, and selling out. This whole topic is somthing that nobody can get exactly right, it is all what your opinion is of "selling out" and at what point do you think a group or person has "sold out". My opinion it that one does not sell out just by making money. Everybody needs to make their bread, even the artists out there. I think that if you write a song, you have the write to make money off of it. It is all work in some form or another. Alot of those artists spend alot of time and energy perfecting a song and making it sound exactly like what they want. If i did all of that, it would be nice to have some money to show for that. I dont care what other people think, that is my fucking opinion and it wont change. If you play out and hundreds of people witness you and your bands really working to give a good show and hear you play your music live and see your interpretitation of the music on your face, i think you deserve a good buck too. I dont beleve that is selling out- you work hard, you make money. What i do classify as selling out, is when someone does not show their artistic integrity and puts out somthing less than they know they are capable of or allows their music to be altered in a way they do not like just because the record company tells them to or because they want to make more of a buck. As far as staying true to your fans, i think it is more important to stay true to yourself. As long as you do that, fuck the fans, you still have your integtity and there will always be somebody out there who likes you. Friends, Fans, and People will come and go, but you will always have to look at yourself in the mirror.

[peace&love]

Originally posted by Hookups
Maynard says it best:
Tool
Aenima (1996)
Hooker with a Penis



For Sure! Maynard always knows wassup.

[SunshineGirlie]

Originally posted by Skippopot2mus
awww incubus is so wise..
:)

werd...

i just saw incubus in concert last thurs... and i would pay the $25 again in a heartbeat (like i did when they came to salem a few months ago as well). i love every cd they have put out.. the lyrics are amazing.. when a song can make me have to sit down and think, theres some substance there. i dont think they necessarliy meant "fuck the fans"... they just dont want the drama and such that comes with msg boards. look at this board- all the flaming and bitching, that we all get caught up in.. what band would like to go onto their own msg board and have to read things like that- about how some kid thinks they are selling out, aruging with someone who loves every album they put out? incubus doesnt. and i dont fucking blame them.

thats all..
love des.

[ecko]

i was wondering when the almighty knottygrl was gonna post on here!

i totally agree with skoiboy i saw them way back in the day when fungus amongus came out * i think it was the tour with 311* but ya they totally rocked it out hardcore back then. Its true today they are more eyecandy to lil girls. but thats not why i started liking them. i like them for their musical talent and have from the begining. I will have to agree with Euro that being at the show on friday made me feel kinda ashamed to be a GIRL and at the show cuz most of the girls were there to gawk at Brandon.

[Mad Vinnie]

I'd like to think that most of us are on this board because we actually go out of our way to find music we enjoy. The majority of our peers, however, would rather spend their time getting into other various hobbies, so they allow MTV to spoon feed them music. This is where big record labels and "sellouts" come to play. People like us dig through mountains and mountains of crap music and the good stuff we find gradually works it's way into the mainstream, all the while changing and mutating. In the end someone has to be there to wrap it in a nice package so it will fit easily into a music video and then be inserted into the ears of musically unenriched people.

-vince

[skoiboy]

Originally posted by Mad Vinnie
I'd like to think that most of us are on this board because we actually go out of our way to find music we enjoy. The majority of our peers, however, would rather spend their time getting into other various hobbies, so they allow MTV to spoon feed them music. This is where big record labels and "sellouts" come to play. People like us dig through mountains and mountains of crap music and the good stuff we find gradually works it's way into the mainstream, all the while changing and mutating. In the end someone has to be there to wrap it in a nice package so it will fit easily into a music video and then be inserted into the ears of musically unenriched people.

-vince

Not bad......not bad at all. Actually, this is a really damn good explanation for most of what this thread has turned into. But I think there's a point missing somewhere on the end, and that is simply this: people let themselves be spoon fed music off the radio and off of MTV because it's POPULAR, and if their not listening to what's POPULAR, then for some reason they figure that they won't be POPULAR, and then they'll feel that they suck ass and shit because they don't know the POPULAR music they're POPULAR friends are listening to. So they listen to the shitty POPULAR music just to be POPULAR, while in a lot of cases, they don't even like the POPULAR shit they're listening to because it fucking sucks!! So in the end, they all listen to POP because it is POPULAR......this is kind of confusing, but I'm sure you can all see my point.

peace,
Shawn