terrence mckenna, recreational drug use, immaturity

[ajnacentric]

am i the only one in the scene who agrees with his opinions on drugs? is anyone else uncomfortable about the use of relatively uncharted manmade drugs such as ecstacy or am i alone on my island in a sea of etards?

i think recreational drug use is really screwing the scene. peoples attitudes about drugs are so immature and destructive. the whole idea behind ecstacy is terrible, that you can just pop a pill or two and suddenly find bliss. im sure it feels real but its a total lie. i guess thats why there is so many damned kids in the rave scene. really, thats what it seems to be to me. a bunch of immature and rebellious kids experiementing with chaos and abandon: loose sex, illicit drugs etc. i only occasionally hear about raves in relation to actually making a positive difference in the world. so is anyone else serious about this? or is it really nothing but a big loud party?

im not normally this philosophical, but this has been on my mind every time i go to a party. so tell me what you think.

------------------
paddy b

[TheKow]

I don't concern myself too much with what other people are doing there, as long as I'm having fun.

------------------
To build a giant castle, and in it sign his name, sign it with complete community.

The Kow

[Tertyl]

paddy...you have to look at the scene as a whole. look at the young and impressionable minds that are entering the party scene, most who look at the responsibility of using drugs as a joke, who look to the older crowd and want to be like them. also i think that you have a large group of teenagers, who (sorry to say guys, but it's mostly true) don't know what this is about, and it ends up being an extenuation of the social clique system, almost like high school. granted that is not true for everyone, there are some really smart kids coming in, but usually the ignorant and just plain stupid, outnumber them 10 to 1. i think the key is educating them, telling them you get out of the scene what you put into it. some of the people you talk to will give you that blank stare and the say, "Are you rollin?", but others will see, and understand, and hopefully learn to pass that onto a friend or two. educate...don't condemn them, that's what i have learned from the scene...

the drugs…well…they have always been there…and I am sure…always will…

[pussycat]

Whether you use drugs "responsibly" or not, it still make the rave scene look bad. Most parents, media, cops, and people in general don't see any kind of drug use as "responsible".

[bassbin]

So these drugs walked into this party and starting kicking people, pulling fire alarms and stealing shit. They were tagging all over the walls too! This has got to come to a stop!

I dont think drugs ruin the scene, people ruin the scene. Wreckless people seeking instant gratification without thinking rationally before acting on impulses. These people are in every "scene," but I don't think the danger of negative outcomes are as high in churches as they are at raves. Maybe they're worse, but I don't think it's in the media's best interest to deter us from religion.

I personally don't care what anyone does to their own body. I do wish people would think before acting. Get educated on the drugs they are taking. I mean actually research them from valid sources. Media hype that swallowing GHB before midnight will make poop come out of your ears is not exactly a valid source, but does raise the fear in parents that their kids might get shitty hearing from going to parties. Which is bad for the scene.

[Jinger]

Tertyl is right on. It really is our responsibility to educate. It is really the only way things will change.

[groovinkim]

am i the only one in the scene who agrees with his opinions on drugs?

of course not. he's been a huge 'rave'
icon since his speeches at san francisco
events years ago.

is anyone else uncomfortable about the use of relatively uncharted manmade drugs such as ecstacy or am i alone on my island in a sea of etards?

i don't think "natural" drugs are automatically superior/safer than "manmade" drugs.

i also don't think that all users of ecstasy are "etards".

i think recreational drug use is really screwing the scene. peoples attitudes about drugs are so immature and destructive. the whole idea behind ecstacy is terrible, that you can just pop a pill or two and suddenly find bliss.

i don't think that all ecstasy users consider that the whole idea behind the drug.

just like marijuana, mushrooms, or any other drug, people have their own individual reasons & beliefs about why they choose to use.

i don't think drugs are the problem in
'the scene' at all.

i guess thats why there is so many damned kids in the rave scene.

the reason there are so many 'damn kids' is because they are being invited by promoters. promoters are choosing to place their invitations in malls, high schools, and other places where kids normally go.

really, thats what it seems to be to me. a bunch of immature and rebellious kids experiementing with chaos and abandon: loose sex, illicit drugs etc. i only occasionally hear about raves in relation to actually making a positive difference in the world.

i believe that breaking down society's
repressive morality structure is a positive difference in the world.

whether that means an individual choosing
for themselves what to put in their body,
or someone choosing to express affection
in a way which is normally demonized as
"immoral", etc..

so is anyone else serious about this? or is it really nothing but a big loud party?

some of the events i've attended have made
much more of an impact on me than being a 'big loud party'.

but when i go to larger concert-like 'rave' events, those to me just feel like big loud parties.

[fortheluvufunity]

i think it is not the drugs or the peepz. nothing in this world is purrfect.there will always be problems in any scene of two or more people b/c we all are our own person and our own free mind to do what ever we want to do.so as a human in a free mind world we have to except what is in front of our face.there will never be a day that everbody agrees with what everyone else is doing with there life.difference in the culture is what makes life fun. if you walked outside and everyone looked and acted the same then life would be boring. what i am saying is that yeah we may not agree with what other peepz r doing but that is human nature so we must overlook that and dig for what we want out of our lives and be ready for some disappointment. ~~i send my luv and energy~~

[metatron]

I say take it back to a lower level, put on your own parites, don't let the media and greedy promoters dictate your experiences.

As for drugs, education needs to be much more open. If you bring a person into the scene, try to explain to them what a good rave can be. And give them a bit of your knowlege. As for education to the "higher learning through drugs" I would recomend the works of Timothy Leary and my personal favortie Robert Anton Wilson. These authers present what was learned in the 60's in the feilds of mind expansion in a level and inteligent form. Sorry about the long post,

------------------
Momomoto, Famous Japanese, can swallow his nose.

[sleater kinney]

Paddy,

Like you I take raving seriously and look at the philosophical side of things. However, I've come to different conclusions.

I try not to judge people's choices. Individuals choose to use drugs for a variety of different reasons. While drugs are generally unsafe, but so is driving, and so I feel that it is up to the individual to decide to take that risk.

I also believe that we all choose to use different substances, illegal or not, unnatural or not, because they fit with our personalities and needs. What may be fun or enlightening for you, may be scary or boring to another. So why judge?

As far as it ruining our scene, well, history shows that the rave scene goes through cycles. Think of the "scene" as one raver person. It goes through it's newbie stage, then it's seasoned growth stage and then it's burn out stage and then it comes back again. So yeah, maybe excessive drug use will make the situation less desireable, but there will be parties in the future.

[ajnacentric]

KIM. damn. your responses made me remember that i was in a pretty bad mood when i made that post. gotta watch those generalizations hehe images/smilies/smile.gif oh yeah i know that terrence mckenna is a big rave scene icon, but i never meet very many people who actually agree with his views on drugs.

also, i dont agree that tearing down moral structures is in itself a good thing. while i think that "western" moral structure, with its patriarchal and dualistic nature has done more evil than good, i dont see that as a reason for anarchy or reaction against balance and moderation(which is very common among liberal and open minded young people).

also you said you dont think that natural drugs are superior to manmade drugs. consider this. most man made drugs(this is a biggie with ecstacy) have an very small history of human use, we dont really know the long term effects. psychoactive plants, however, have an ancient history of use, as well as shamanistic tradition( i know, this is straight outta mckenna, but thats why i mentioned him). there are other more biological reasons as well, but i wont go into them here.

TERTYL, i pretty much agree with you. i guess the best thing we can do is to try and educate everyone as to what raves are really about, even when some dealers and promoters act otherwise.

All in all, i guess i get negative because the NW isnt progressive enough. when i read about return to the source and other cool things going on in london, goa and even other places in the US, it makes me upset when there is so much of the same old same old around here.

anyway, i have to clean up my ill fated get together(it was nice talking to you Tertyl hehahahahah!!!) so i'll step off of my podium now.



------------------
paddy b

[Sparklecheek]

i don't think it's necessarily the drugs themselves, either. i think it's people and their total lack of moderation when playing with drugs. it seems like no one is satisfied to take ONE hit anymore. it's gotta be 3 hits of one thing and 3 of another all together. i think people are so bent on getting fucked up that they throw all caution to the wind, don't do their research, etc. just basically ignoring trends and putting their lives into the lottery, it's sad.

[groovinkim]

All in all, i guess i get negative because the NW isnt progressive enough. when i read about return to the source and other cool things going on in london, goa and even other places in the US, it makes me upset when there is so much of the same old same old around here.
............

i think that stagnation is a cycle. but if you do something, often it inspires someone else, who inspires someone else, etc...

[Enkidu Kind]

First: Recreational drug use will never stop. No matter what, people will use drugs to enhance their experiences. It's like everyone has been saying. Responsability. Realize, people, that you are not indestructable. This mainly goes out the the younger crowd. When using drugs, you really have to evaluate the situation and your condition before you injest the pill (or whatever). And don't be afraid to explore the realm of sobriety. It is seriously possible to have more fun than you can imagine without the help of ANY drugs. But if you choose to do them, think, think, think.

By the way, IMHO, drugs like GHB and Ketamine have no place in the rave scene. Here you are using drugs that were never meant for human consumption and are straight dangerous. Using a horse tranquilizer to get off is about as dumb as that girl who drank copier fluid to get high. Now I know many of you will disagree with me and say, "E is just as dangerous." Well, let me say in advance that I disagree. Bad GHB and K stories seem to outnumber bad E stories.

images/smilies/smile.gif Enkidu images/smilies/smile.gif

[B;-p]

Hey man.....

what is this......you hate the recreational drug use.....humm...
well you have to think peeps have
been trippin out 2 music for longer
then I have been around...have you
ever herd of those partys they had
in the 50's 60's....w/ a bunch of
peeps sittin around in a basment
of someones house doing all kinds
of drugs, having sex(orgys), dancing
nude.....and so on and so on......
think about it fer a while......
now we are doing exactly the same thing
( toned down just a bit ) just it iz
keepin up w/ the times......hello
peeps use drugs cuz they want to...
not just to fit in.......and some
drugs just grow naturaly...how can
you say something that grows from
the planet is a frikkin controled
substance......arg the Goverment
just pisses me off some times......
and for your info I really do have no prob
wakeing up in the morning ( 1am ) and
going 2 werk sober 50+ hours a week
at 2 job.......drugs don't fuck peeps
lifes up.....peeps fuck up there own
lives by takeing things way 2 far exsess

wurd out B

[SuperGirl]

Jesus.

I was under the impression that raves were the one place I could go to get away from the Thought Police, but apparently not.

So I pop a pill and instantly you know everything about me, my goals, and what I seek out of the scene? You're as bad as the popular press - worse, actually, because you should know better.

Raves have always been a freedom space for everyone. How people choose to exercise that freedom is up to them, and as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else (and I mean hurt, not offend the sensibilities of... if you're going to a rave expecting never to be shocked or to have your foundations shaken every time you go, stay home), then what the hell business is it of yours whether or not I swallow a tab?

I don't let you decide what clothes I wear or who I sleep with, and I'm sure the hell not going to bow to your opinions on what drugs I should or shouldn't do. Responsible drug use isn't evil. If it's enough of a problem for you that you think you have the right to preach to people, I hear there's a Sunday School Picnic next Saturday... perhaps you'd feel more comfortable there?

Drugs aren't the problem. Irresponsible people are. Rather than criticising newbies and young people, teach them. If they want to learn, fine. If they don't, shut up and back off.

Freedom means more than just what YOU want.

~SG~>

[Krashe]

C'mon guys even the indians used drugs....
whether spiritually, "recreational", or abusive... who gives a fuck? if people choose to destroy their lives, i mean, EVERYONE knows the consiquinces and its their own fault for whatever turns out on the situation.... as for ravers : i think the subculture is more open to drug-use and people understand if you choose to "get high" at a certain party or special ocasion..
but still drug use shouldnt be taken lightly and some of the greatest people use drugs ocasionally.. that shouldnt determine what kind of person you are.... personally i party sober 70% more than i use drugs.....
but i dont think bad of a person who uses all the time... unless that person is always a potential OD because people who dont know their limits........well, its their own fucking fault if they OD caues nobody forced them to take the drugs......
i just hate the people who ONLY come for the drugs...... because those people are the ones that give us a bad name.... at a convienence store at 7:00 in the morning giving back-rubs in the parking lot...... those people suck.. *argh*
but like kow said -- do you go to parties for everyone else? Or do YOU go because YOU have fun and YOU like what YOU do, and YOU go for YOURself? be honest to yourself...

[B;-p]

Wurd man.....what I do Iz my choice....


out