Most Palestinians want to destroy Israel and drive all Israeli Jews into the sea...?

[Effendi]

.
This is the most frequently asked question by Israeli Zionists. We will answer the question indirectly by asking the question below:

Are you aware that Israeli Zionists, during the 1948 war, have pushed into the sea up to 25% of the Palestinian refugees (including women, children, and old people)?

From the inception of Zionism, the Zionist leaders have fed their people false propaganda. Probably this picture can tell you a bit of the real story, It is misleading and unfair to focus on what Palestinians might allegedly do in the future, while Palestinians' past and present are filled with Israeli war crimes. These types of accusations are meant to deflect and confuse the core issues of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. The core issues of the conflict are the collective DISPOSSESSION and ETHNIC CLEANSING (compulsory population transfer) of the Palestinian people for the past five decades, and the conflict would have been on the same level of intensity, even if both warring parties were Muslims, Christians, or even Jewish.

From the start, the Zionist leaders were keen on creating a "Jewish State" based on "Jewish majority" by immigrating Jews to Palestine in mass numbers, which was primarily motivated by the fleeing European Jews from anti-Semitic Tsarist Russia and Nazi Germany. When it became increasingly clear to the Zionist leaders at the time (such as Ben-Gurion and Theodor Herzl) that it was impossible to achieve Jewish majority solely based on immigration and natural growth, they concluded that forcible "population transfer" (Ethnic Cleansing) was the only solution to the "Arab Problem." Year after year, the plan to ethnically cleanse Palestine of its indigenous people became known as the "transfer solution". David Ben-Gurion, the first Israeli Prime Minister, eloquently articulated the "transfer solution" as the following:

In a joint meeting between the Jewish Agency Executive and Zionist Action Committee on June 12th, 1938:
"With compulsory transfer we [would] have a vast area [for settlement] .... I support compulsory transfer. I don't see anything immoral in it." (Righteous Victims p. 144).

In a speech addressing the Central Committee of the Histadrut on December 30, 1947:
"In the area allocated to the Jewish State there are not more than 520,000 Jews and about 350,000 non-Jews, mostly Arabs. Together with the Jews of Jerusalem, the total population of the Jewish State at the time of its establishment, will be about one million, including almost 40% non-Jews. such a [population] composition does not provide a stable basis for a Jewish State. This [demographic] fact must be viewed in all its clarity and acuteness. With such a [population] composition, there cannot even be absolute certainty that control will remain in the hands of the Jewish majority .... There can be no stable and strong Jewish state so long as it has a Jewish majority of only 60%." (Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 176 & Benny Morris p. 28)

And on February 8th, 1948 Ben-Gurion also stated to the Mapai Council:
"From your entry into Jerusalem, through Lifta, Romema [East Jerusalem Palestinian neighborhood]. . . there are no [Palestinian] Arabs. One hundred percent Jews. Since Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans, it has not been Jewish as it is now. In many [Palestinian] Arab neighborhoods in the west one sees not a single [Palestinian] Arab. I do not assume that this will change. . . . What had happened in Jerusalem. . . . is likely to happen in many parts of the country. . . in the six, eight, or ten months of the campaign there will certainly be great changes in the composition of the population in the country." (Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 180-181)

In a speech addressing the Zionist Action Committee on April 6th, 1948:
"We will not be able to win the war if we do not, during the war, populate upper and lower, eastern and western Galilee, the Negev and Jerusalem area ..... I believe that war will also bring in its wake a great change in the distribution of Arab population." (Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 181)

For Israeli Zionists to excuse themselves from any war crimes, such as compulsory population transfer (Ethnic Cleansing) and dispossessing the Palestinian people, they've resorted to a myth that Palestinians left their homes, farms, businesses, banks, boats, cars, ..etc. based on their free will, click here to read our rebuttal of this concocted myth.



Jaffa May 1948, Palestinians were being pushed into the see by the attacking Israeli Army

There is no denying of the fact that some Palestinians think exactly like the Zionists (which is the Palestinian version of Zionism), and very possibly they do so because they were the victims of such treatment. Regardless of whether it is right or wrong, you have to agree that it is human nature to respond to terror with terror and to racism with racism, which are facts that all decent people must accept and deplore simultaneously. No matter what the circumstances are (such as the urge to seek vengeance, revenge, reprisals, ... etc.), targeting civilians to achieve political or military objectives, in either war or non-war situations, is terrorism. It is worth noting that the Palestinian people have been on the receiving end of Israeli terrorism, the chief of which are the collective DISPOSSESSION and ETHNIC CLEANSING of 8.5 million Palestinian for the past five decades.

Finally, the Palestinian mainstream does not and will not condone massive ethnic cleansing the way Israeli Zionists have done to the Palestinian people. Palestinians, as Muslim and Arabs, have their long history and track record to prove exactly the opposite. Omar Ibn al-Khatab's and Saladin's conquest of Jerusalem are solid proof of how Arabs and Muslims fairly treated their defeated subjects, the Byzantines and the Crusades respectively. Ironically, many of today's Christian Palestinians trace their roots to the Crusades, such as the famous Rock family of Jaffa. In other words, if freeing Palestine shall imply perpetrating war crimes similar to the ones perpetrated against the Palestinian people, Palestinians shall wait for another Omar or Saladin to right the wrongs of the past. The Muslim Arabs have their history to prove their tolerance towards their subjects, however, the Israeli Zionists have their track record to speak for them. Palestine Remembered has been explicitly built to expose and uncover Israeli war crimes and to AMPLIFY the voices of the Palestinian refugees.


http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story417.html

Some Interesting reading...

Scott!!

[Carley]

Did you know that a recent survey showed nobody in Sweden had "anything important to complain about?"

:)

*nuzzle*

~c

[Mike S]

Interesting Scott..

Here'e a little different perspective for ya..


http://www.frontpagemag.com/media/slideshowimages/slide1.html


MS

[Effendi]

They are responsible for the high rate of casualties among their kids

http://www.palestineremembered.com/images/DeadPalestinianAsAnIsraeliTrophies.jpg

A Palestinian killed by Israeli Occupation Soldiers used as a trophy

If this remark is written the other way around to describe Jewish or Israeli parents, it would become one of the most anti-Semitic statements ever. Knowingly, or unknowingly, such statements attempt to demonize Arabs, which makes them a legitimate target, very much like animal hunting. The average Israeli or a Jew who repeats such racist statements really believes that the average Arab is a subhuman creature, who has no love or affection towards his or her children. These types of racist statements are a way of life in Israel and many Jewish communities around the world, which in turn fuels and energizes their apartheid societies whenever they're threatened.

For a moment, let us assume that such racist statement is true, and Palestinian mothers send their boys to demonstrate and throw stones on the Israeli Occupation Force (IOF):

Is that a good reason to shoot unarmed Palestinian kids?

Let us ask the question the other way around, and assume that Israeli or Jewish kids demonstrated against British or Nazi occupation (which actually happened during WWII in Warsaw and Tel Aviv prior to the 1948 war):

Is that a good reason to kill unarmed Jewish kids?

It is amusing that the apartheid regime in South Africa used such racist statements to justify the high rate of causalities among African school boys, especially during the famous African student uprisings in the mid 70s and 80s. And instead of opening a criminal investigation to explain why kids are being shot at a high rate (as often done in democratic societies), most Israelis and Zionists point their fingers toward the dead victims. Instead of questioning the soldiers who pull the trigger, the Israelis are questioning the dead Palestinian boys.

As a Palestinian, I would like to inform many misinformed Israelis that Palestinians love their kids as much as Israeli Jews love their kids, and many would do their best to keep their kids out of harms way. Based on personal experience, my parents used to make their best effort to keep me from of demonstrating against the Israeli Occupation Force. Continuously, my parents used to inspect my clothes for the smell of burned tires, inspect my hands for stone residue, and to personally pick me up from school just to make sure I do not demonstrate against the IOF. I used to go out of my way to participate in resisting and organizing activities against the Israeli Occupation, which was done without the prior consent of my parents. Yes, it was done by a teenage boy who hated the Israeli Occupation so much; I was a young boy who always thought he will live forever. My story is similar to Faris Odeh's story, click here to see my hero. Soon after this photo was taken, my hero was killed (not far from where that picture was taken) because he threw stones at Israeli Occupation soldiers. It should be noted that Faris' parents went out of their way to keep their kids from demonstrating against the Israeli occupation. It is very sad that Faris was murdered, and his murderer is getting a free hand to perpetrate similar war crimes against other stone-throwing Palestinian boys. To give the reader a first hand eyewitness account of such encounters with the Israeli army, Ha'aretz Daily (one of the major Israeli newspapers) has published an article describing how Israeli soldiers fired live bullets on unarmed Palestinian kids, click here for more details.

The questions which must be asked to each and every Israeli Occupation Force soldier:

When you point your gun toward a stone throwing Palestinian kid, do you see a human or a duck?
When you point your gun toward a stone throwing Israeli kid, do you see a human or a duck?
What does it feel like after pulling the trigger?
Do you feel relieved that your bullet shot the boy (or duck) before his or her stone hit you?
By no means we are claiming that Palestinians should not do more to prevent such a high rate of casualties among kids, however, pointing the finger toward the dead kids and their parents is nothing but a cheap ploy to deflect and divert the responsibility. It is always easier to blame the victim, and God forbid that a "Jewish Soldier" could be responsible for killing unarmed Palestinian boys or civilians, no such crimes could ever happen by "Jewish Soldiers!" It is often a taboo to discuss the morality of such war crimes in many Jewish Communities for the fear that such discussion could spark anti-Semitic remarks by others! For God's sake, big war crimes are being committed in the name of the "Jewish people", and instead of speaking out against such war crimes, many Jews continue to dig their heads in the sand thinking that the Palestinian people would just disappear.

It should be emphasized that Jews, of all people, must deplore and distance themselves from such racist remarks. Once upon a time, European Jews were demonized for the sole purpose of legitimizing racist practices against them, and it is the ultimate hypocrisy to use such racist statements for the sole purpose of scoring political points.

[A.J.]

*sigh*

Anouther one? For goodness sakes man. Tell me, have you ever been to Israel? If not I feel the need to bitchslap the fuck out of you.

[seattle science]

Originally posted by Mike S


http://www.frontpagemag.com/media/slideshowimages/slide1.html




Just about sums it all up.

[EV]

Mike, SeattleSci-->werd, in text.
Originally posted by Mike S
http://www.frontpagemag.com/media/s...ges/slide1.html originally posted by seattle science
Just about sums it all up.

*When the Palestinians say "End of Occupation," what do they mean?
The Western World thinks they mean "End of the Occupation in the West Bank & Gaza."

*But what the Palestinians actually mean is "End of Israel."

*They don't even try to hide it. The map of "Liberated Palestine" on the official website of the Palestinian National Authority, Ministry of Parlimentary Affairs shows Palestine as the entire State of Israel.

*The map of "LIberated Palestine" featured on teh official emblem of the Palestinian National Authority's Minister of Industry is the entire State of Israel.

*The map of "Liberated Palestine" on Arafat's Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) official emblem is the entire State of Israel.

*The map of "Liberated Palestine" on Yasser Arafat's uniform is the entire State of Israel.

*The map of "Liberated Palestine" in the official Palestinian Authority's education system schoolbooks is the entire State of Israel.

*The map of "Liberated Palestine" as a statuete displayed in the Principal's room in the Palestinian town of Tulkarm is the entire State of Israel, with a dagger thrust in the 'heart' of the land, causing blood to trickle from the wound, 'irrigating' the Palestinian land.

*The map of "Liberated Palestine" from an art lesson in a Palestinian school shows Jews destroyed by fire and the Israeli flag burning. And And of course, the entire State of Israel.

*QUESTION: Now, when you hear the Palestinians say "End of Occupation," do theyy mean "A Palestinian State alongside Israel" or "in place of Israel?"

*ANSWER: Poll: Majority of Palestinians see Israel's elimination as goal. (Source: The Palestinian Jerusalem Media and Communication Center, June 11, 2002) (also see: thread on NWtekno with same name as poll)

[Layla]

*sigh*

Yes both sides hate each other and want to see the others disappear off the face of the earth. That's the way it is and it sucks and really I'm just more depressed every day that there seems to be no end in sight.

The smartest thing the Palestinians could do is ask for an annexation to Israel rather than their own state... then we will see very quickly the integrity of Israel's great "democracy."

Equal rights for people who ovbiously want to inhabit the same land is not too insane of a concept is it?

Layla

[seattle science]

Israel wants to wipe the Palestinians from the face of the earth? Israel is one of the world's strongest military powers, along with posessing nuclear weapons. If Israel wanted to eliminate the Palestinians they could have vaporized them decades ago. I've asked this before, but how long do you think Arafat would wait to use nukes if he got his hands on them? A single minute?

Israel obviously wants peace, which is why they *democratically* elected Barak a few years ago to encourage peace and the establishment of a Palestinian state, which was all rejected by Arafat without even a counter-offer.

[yewzer]

i hate posting mail, but i thought it was relevant.

Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 09:40:24 -0400

The following material was written by an American Christian professor.

It's important information to know since we don't get fair and accurate reorting from the media and facts tend to get lost in the jumble of daily events.

Crash Course on the Arab Israeli Conflict

Here are overlooked facts in the current Middle East situation. These were compiled by a Christian university professor.
HERE'S THE BRIEF FACTS ON THE ISRAELI CONFLICT TODAY....Takes just 1.5 minutes to read!!!! It makes sense and it's not slanted. Jew and non-Jew it doesn't matter.
Thank You.

1. Nationhood and Jerusalem. Israel became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., two thousand years before the rise of Islam.

2. Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967, two decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel.

3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 B.C.E., the Jews have had dominion over the land for one thousand years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.

4. The only Arab dominion since the conquest in 635 C.E. lasted no more than 22 years.

5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital. Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital, and Arab leaders did not come to visit.

6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in Tanach, the Jewish Holy scriptures. Jerusalem is not mentioned once in the Koran.

7. King David founded the city of Jerusalem. Mohammed never came to Jerusalem.

8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims pray with their backs toward Jerusalem.

9. Arab and Jewish Refugees: In 1948 the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews. Sixty-eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier.

10. The Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.

11. The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 630,000. The number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands is estimated to be the same.

12. Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory.
Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own peoples' lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel, a country no larger than the state of New Jersey.

13. The Arab - Israeli Conflict: The Arabs are represented by eight separate nations, not including the Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation. The Arab nations initiated all five wars and lost. Israel defended itself each time and won.

14. The P.L.O.'s Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of Israel. Israel has given the Palestinians most of the West Bank land, autonomy under the Palestinian Authority, and has supplied them

15. Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated and the Jews were denied access to places of worship. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.

16. The U.N. Record on Israel and the Arabs: of the 175 Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel.

17. Of the 690 General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429 were directed against Israel.

18. The U.N was silent while 58 Jerusalem Synagogues were destroyed by the Jordanians.

19. The U.N. was silent while the Jordanians systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives.

20. The U.N. was silent while the Jordanians enforced an apartheid-like policy of preventing Jews from visiting the Temple Mount and the Western Wall.

i might take a lot for granted here, so if anyone has any questions, feel free to ask.

I also think Velo has an amazing idea. However i dont see it happening anytime soon, there is way to much hatred for the killings to stop.

[Layla]

Hello Sam! and actually the thought came from my mother who was born in Ramallah as a Palestinian.

Originally posted by sam!
i hate posting mail, but i thought it was relevant.

Crash Course on the Arab Israeli Conflict

Here are overlooked facts in the current Middle East situation. These were compiled by a Christian university professor.
HERE'S THE BRIEF FACTS ON THE ISRAELI CONFLICT TODAY....Takes just 1.5 minutes to read!!!! It makes sense and it's not slanted. Jew and non-Jew it doesn't matter.
Thank You.


I'm sorry, but this is VERY slanted... this is pro-Jew propaganda.


2. Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967, two decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel.


I think that my grandparents knew that they had been forceably expelled from PALESTINE when they arrived in 1950 thank you very much.

The other claims I'd like to research and substatiante myself, but clearly this is a Pro-Jew message and shows only one side of the issue. It does not excuse current behavior of Israel against the Palestinians.

Beware anyone who tells you they have the absolute truth, even in facts we can be fooled. Reminds me of an old saying:

"There are lies, there are damn lies, and there are statistics" - anonymous

Glad you are interested in the issue, however, keep learning the whole story!

Layla

[Justin]

Originally posted by sam!



The following material was written by an American Christian professor.


Why does it matter that he happens to be Christian? It only makes sense that he identifies himself thatway if he bases his worldview on Christianity, which he clearly does.

It's not a religious conflict over there. I challenge anyone to name a single conflict in history waged between two peoples that was purely religious in motivation. It's about two peoples fighting for the same land, and as these two peoples have different cultures, they happen to have different religions too.

Also, by this guys logic the Iroqious Nations have the proper title to Boston.

[EV]

We must all recognize that this is a thorny issue to begin with and that the actual truth is so opaque that it negates its worth. All sides of this
conflict are guilty, not only the Israelis and the Palestinians, but the
British, the Americans, the surrounding Arab powers, the Russians, and so on. The problem is so multi-faceted that I could not hope to fully elucidate a cogent argument covering each branch of the problem.

I don't quite agree with this commentary though. You claim that in May of '48, as the state of Israel was declared by charter of the United Nations, that the Palestinians were pushed into the sea by the "attacking Israeli army". This is almost ironic, since it was the entrenched Israelis that were attacked by all the surrounding Arab powers.

While you are partially correct with the Zionists' wishes to have a Jewish majority, the assertions that the Jews carried out a
process of "ethnic cleansing" is as malicious as it is cliche. Since the Jews made peace with Egypt in '79, they have known that it was ineluctable that there would be a separate Palestinian state. After all, the population growth projections told policy-makers that the future was bleak for the jews. By 2020, the Arab minority would be a minority no longer.

Consequently, the identity of the state, its flag, and the people's security would vanish. Why did Zionism and the state of Israel come about anyway? After thousands of years of slavery, diaspora, inquisitions, trials, holocausts, and pogroms the Jews demanded, with the aid of the new superpower in the neighborhood with a strong and vocal jewish lobby, it's own state for the first time since the Romans sacked Jerusalem.

It wasn't until '67 that the Palestinians began to be wholly victimized. How did this come about? During the Six-day war, in which Israel was again attacked (as it would be yet again in '73) by the Arab Nations. These conflicts playing a smaller role in a wider conflict, the Cold War. America assured Israeli security, while the Soviet Union gently poked and prodded for weaknesses by supplying the Syrians and the Egyptians with arms and advisors.

The plight of the Palestinians has less to do with Zionism and more to do with the weakness and stubborness of its "arab allies". The other arab nations, with as much historical hatred of the Israelis as the Israelis have for the Czars of Russia, were the ones that attempted to push a race of people into the sea - three times now.

The Palestinians are just an unfortunate people, playing the part of a
middle-eastern Poland. The Israelis knowing full well that a Palestinian State was not only inevitable but helpful for their problem have just been playing the same game of poker that the Arab nations and Arafat has played. They all want to hold the most land by the time actual negotiations begin. The Israeli's only want to gain their security. The Palestinians want to live life unfettered and with peace. The U.S. is sadly to blame for supporting the Israelis so explcitly and blindly. The Arab Neighbors are historically inept, yet troublesome. Those moderate regimes need the conflict and the subsequent propaganda to control, but further enrage, their virulent populations.

From Machiavelli, "the end justifies the means". However, the blood of
innocents, including women and children, are hardly appropriate and humane "means" to achieve political ends. Or maybe I'm just being naive to expect anything better of human nature. Though, with the rise of extremism and the potency of islamic fundamentalism with its increasingly audible wrath I'm sure that there is a new road on the plane of existence which needs to be walked nobly by righteous and moral people.


EV

[Mike S]

Originally posted by Velo
Hello Sam! and actually the thought came from my mother who was born in Ramallah as a Palestinian.



I'm sorry, but this is VERY slanted... this is pro-Jew propaganda.



I think that my grandparents knew that they had been forceably expelled from PALESTINE when they arrived in 1950 thank you very much.

The other claims I'd like to research and substatiante myself, but clearly this is a Pro-Jew message and shows only one side of the issue. It does not excuse current behavior of Israel against the Palestinians.

Beware anyone who tells you they have the absolute truth, even in facts we can be fooled. Reminds me of an old saying:

"There are lies, there are damn lies, and there are statistics" - anonymous

Glad you are interested in the issue, however, keep learning the whole story!

Layla


I'm Sorry but everything in that post was true so how is it propaganda?
I think where people get off on the wrong foot is in asssuming that there has to be equal blame to go around and that there isnt a right party and a wrong party in this conflict. If someone comes out with data showing how weak and wrong the palestinian position is it isnt necessarily jewish propoganda.. I might just be the truth.

Mike

[Effendi]

.
Like Usual...

It was your (Someones) twisted Semetic version of the truth....but it's Ok, because as has always been the case, believe what you want to believe...you have that right, but that doesn't mean that it is Truth!!

[yewzer]

Originally posted by seattle science
Israel wants to wipe the Palestinians from the face of the earth? Israel is one of the world's strongest military powers, along with posessing nuclear weapons. If Israel wanted to eliminate the Palestinians they could have vaporized them decades ago. I've asked this before, but how long do you think Arafat would wait to use nukes if he got his hands on them? A single minute?


w00t

i understand that my view of the entire situation is taken from one side. I would like to learn the other half but the resources i find on it are mostly raw palestinian propaganda.
I cant blame isreal for punishing the palestinians. if i had fear of going out to club because some jack ass might strap a bomb on his body and give his life to allah with a few of my freinds, i would put pressure on my governement to make it stop.
I know arafat is not doing a good enough job, that is obvious. What really scares me is the fact that i dont know if they will replace him with someone who is capable.

sam

[Layla]

Originally posted by Mike S



I'm Sorry but everything in that post was true so how is it propaganda?
I think where people get off on the wrong foot is in asssuming that there has to be equal blame to go around and that there isnt a right party and a wrong party in this conflict. If someone comes out with data showing how weak and wrong the palestinian position is it isnt necessarily jewish propoganda.. I might just be the truth.

Mike

I never said it wasn't the truth except for the one statement that I directly quoted. The whole point of my last post was to caution people against only viewing one version of "the truth." To me, propaganda is anything that will tell you only one side of the story. You have posted porpaganda and so has Scott. We are all thinking individuals (well, most of us at any rate) and can use a combination of facts, accounts and truths to decide our own opinion on the matter.

And regardless of how "weak and wrong" you view the Palestinian postiion as being, it does not justify how Israel treats the people it holds under occupation. History of biblical times, past agression twoards Jews from Arabs, numbers of dead... all irrevalant! Last I checked we lived in the NOW, and right now there is a question of human rights and how an entire group of people has been used as a political pawn of some kind of twisted Middle East versus the West power game....

I for one am a bit sick of it, all of it! The provocation from BOTH sides. The bullshit assumptions that either side is right and deserves the land more than the other. Yes its true! People on both sides of the conflict want to see the other ones die a firey painful death. Its also true that people on both sides want peace and an end to all the bullshit. Unfortunately it is a very dangerous time, probably moreso on the Palestinian side, for people to voice those opinions. Are you going to judge every last person in a group by its leader and government charter? God forbid someone think that I am a blubbering idoit because George W. Bush is my president, and that I support the death penalty because it is legal in this country... but that is just a ridiculous assumption, right?

And yes, I do assume equal blame for both parties living on that chunk of earth, and more blame to the US government for tipping the scales, blindly endorsing and perpetuating an unbearable existence for an entire people. I don't care who the people are, it's just not right!

As I have stated before.. I feel the only way out is a diplomatic, non-violent solution that is fair to both, but unfortunately you cannot control the actions of madmen bent on revenge. Unfortunately both sides are full of them and I really don't see an end in sight.

Layla

[Effendi]

Originally posted by sam!

I cant blame isreal for punishing the palestinians.
I hear ya....and I can't blame the Palestinians for blowing up the israelis for trying to "punish" them.

Especially when in this case the word punishment means shooting small Palestinian children in the street while they play....taking over and occupying land that is not theirs...leveling peoples houses with bulldozers while they are still full of women and children.

I guess the zionists learned about punishment from their own God.....of course killing 6 million of them seems abit harsh to be, but I guess you lead by example!

Scott!!

[HexRei]

Originally posted by sam!


w00t

i understand that my view of the entire situation is taken from one side. I would like to learn the other half but the resources i find on it are mostly raw palestinian propaganda.
I cant blame isreal for punishing the palestinians. if i had fear of going out to club because some jack ass might strap a bomb on his body and give his life to allah with a few of my freinds, i would put pressure on my governement to make it stop.
I know arafat is not doing a good enough job, that is obvious. What really scares me is the fact that i dont know if they will replace him with someone who is capable.

sam

How would you feel if fifty years ago, half of your country was arbitrarily handed over to a theocracy opposed to your own religion?
How would you feel if it was your home that was taken by a settler belonging to that theocracy? Might you not be a bit upset?
How would you then feel if the largest super powers in the world DID NOT CARE, ignored your pleas, and in fact supported and funded this theocracy's military, preventing your own economically poor people from raising any sort of meaningful army against them with which to fight a traditional war? I'm sure you'd stay silent, move to whatever area you were deported to, and forget about the life you had before, right?

[sonic::bionic]

I STILL don't hear people sticking up for the Lebanese.

I STILL haven't heard any evidence of violence towards Jordan when "Palestine" was annexed by Jordan.

There was no country called "Palestine" when Israel was REcreated. Does ANYBODY have ANY evidence of Palestinian violence towards their PREVIOUS OCCUPIERS, or did they ONLY GET PISSED when the stinky JEWS moved in? And I mean organized and orchestrated acts of violence, not some random violence.

[Iokera]

Originally posted by Effendi
They are responsible for the high rate of casualties among their kids

http://www.palestineremembered.com/images/DeadPalestinianAsAnIsraeliTrophies.jpg

A Palestinian killed by Israeli Occupation Soldiers used as a trophy


i didn't take the time to read alllllllll of those essays, but that picture made me very uncomfortable. FUCK RELIGION!!! SEE WHAT IT MAKES PEOPLE DO!!!???

peace

[Mike S]

Originally posted by HexRei


How would you feel if fifty years ago, half of your country was arbitrarily handed over to a theocracy opposed to your own religion?
How would you feel if it was your home that was taken by a settler belonging to that theocracy? Might you not be a bit upset?
How would you then feel if the largest super powers in the world DID NOT CARE, ignored your pleas, and in fact supported and funded this theocracy's military, preventing your own economically poor people from raising any sort of meaningful army against them with which to fight a traditional war? I'm sure you'd stay silent, move to whatever area you were deported to, and forget about the life you had before, right?


Now if the above statement were actually historically accurate as it pertains to the palestinians I'm sure it would be releveant.. but its not.

The palestinians never had a country taken away from them, most of them up and left under the assumption their Arab brothers were about to come in and push the Isrealis into the sea.. so they didnt want to be in the middle of a war zone.. and when their arab brothers had their asses handed to em by the Isrealis.. guess what.. the isealis werent eager to let a bunch more arabs come back in.. Would you?
And As far as us supporting Isreal.. oh boo hoo.. Golly were not playing fair by giving aid to a bunch of lying Palestinian lunatics who want to end Isreals existance. Good. So what.

Guess who else isnt giving them aid:

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/breaking_2.html

Of course I doubt I'll hear ANYBODY whining about that..

MS