Article (non political) deadhead/rave scene similarities

[Mike S]

http://slate.msn.com/default.aspx?id=2070251

In reading this there seemed to me to be some similarities between how the deadhead and rave scenes "progressed" socially.

Thought others might find it an interesting read.

MS

[lil bull]

QUOTE:"What bugged me was the a priori assumption among Deadheads that Dead shows were always magic and that the magic could be routinely summoned on a nightly basis. It couldn't, not by a long shot."


That's the kinda mentality I remember from tour.

[Mike S]

One of the quotes that jumped out at me was this one -

"What had begun as an inclusive rallying point for outcasts became a provincial closed society"

Not only do I think that quote is that applicable to the rave scene but also any of the other electronic "genre" scenes as well.

MS

[Kosmicdog]

You have about as much of a clue about Grateful Dead culture as the author of that stupid article.

[lil bull]

Ten shows or so would give him something of a clue.

[Mike S]

Originally posted by Kosmicdog
You have about as much of a clue about Grateful Dead culture as the author of that stupid article.

Wow great input.. So is it your contention that the author is completely off and that my assertion that what the author is describing as having occured within the deadhead community being similar to certain aspects of the rave/electronic community is baseless?

MS

[ZupanGOD]

Originally posted by Mike S
In reading this there seemed to me to be some similarities between how the deadhead and rave scenes "progressed" socially.
MS

Marc writes:

"It wasn't just the fanatics; every fan (myself included) bought into the "satori through space jam" myths, wore the same tie-dye, danced the same wiggle dance. What had begun as an inclusive rallying point for outcasts became a provincial closed society."

I would say the Rave scene is falling into the same predigament.

The more things change the more they stay the same.

haha good read.

-Jason

[Kosmicdog]

Originally posted by Mike S


Wow great input.. So is it your contention that the author is completely off and that my assertion that what the author is describing as having occured within the deadhead community being similar to certain aspects of the rave/electronic community is baseless?

MS

Yes, that is my contention.

For the past 12 years I have been a FAR more active participant in the GD family then I have anywhere else. I know a whole lot more about that scene then you and the "10 shows I know whats up" writer of that uninformed article ever will.

Nice signature asshole.

bite me.

[Mike S]

Originally posted by Kosmicdog


Yes, that is my contention.

For the past 12 years I have been a FAR more active participant in the GD family then I have anywhere else. I know a whole lot more about that scene then you and the "10 shows I know whats up" writer of that uninformed article ever will.

Nice signature asshole.

bite me.

Acually I dont really know much about the "GD family" but I do know quite a bit about the various electronic scenes and I found the similarities between his observations regarding your "GD family" and my (as well as other peoples) observation pertaining to the various "electronic music" sub-cultures interesting and thought I'd share that.

Guess in order to really know whats up,and make an observation about anything GD related you have to be down with the family huh?
No outside input allowed.

Interesting.

Oh..If you like the sig you'll love the t-shirts and bumperstickers.
I understand they sell quite well. My favorite is the spin off of the ever popular "visualize" bumper stickers - It reads "Visualize me not giving a fuck about what you visualize".

MS

[Kosmicdog]

It's nice that you have found a biased article written by a jackass.

[Mike S]

Originally posted by Kosmicdog
It's nice that you have found a biased article written by a jackass.

You could be right - the article is, after all, a brief overview of the book " A long strange trip" and what is presented is taken from and possibly out of context with what ever else is written in the book.

Then again the book is written by the bands publicist of 18 years so one might think he'd have at least as much insight into the "GD family" as you do.

MS

[Roddimus]

Meh.
I see SOME similarities between mainstream electronic music culture (ie, SEC events) and what the author described, but I think your comparison is a little weak.
For one thing, the "GD family" is centered around a single band playing individual shows, not multiple DJs, music genres and events.
I think the odds for creating the "magic" the author touched upon are greater when you have different people from different backgrounds working on different events.
When it's just one band and one group of people, the results are VERY differnet.
But like Sondr said, the author of the piece seemed like he simply became bored with being a deadhead and decided to blame everyone else for ruining it, rather than face the fact that he really didn't know what he was getting himself into.

[Kosmicdog]

Originally posted by Mike S



Then again the book is written by the bands publicist of 18 years so one might think he'd have at least as much insight into the "GD family" as you do.

MS

There's also a book by called "Living With The Dead", by Rock Scully, who helped managed them, and did live with them for over 20 years. He is widely known as a huge asshole who over the years managed to rip off the Dead and use them for his own gain.

Go figure.

And stop with the "GD family" bit. Heh. real funny....

[lil bull]

Quote KosmicDog: "For the past 12 years I have been a FAR more active participant in the GD family then I have anywhere else."


Not real sure but didn't jerry croak back in 95' or so?
Plus there seemed to be a large number of "Jerry's Kids" that went from GD tour to the "RAVE" scene. no stats to back that up however it did sceme to be a common occurance.

[lil bull]

Good book though I read that one mostly for the picts. What about that movie "TYE-DYED"??

[Kosmicdog]

Originally posted by lil bull
Quote KosmicDog: "For the past 12 years I have been a FAR more active participant in the GD family then I have anywhere else."


Not real sure but didn't jerry croak back in 95' or so?
Plus there seemed to be a large number of "Jerry's Kids" that went from GD tour to the "RAVE" scene. no stats to back that up however it did sceme to be a common occurance.

Yes Jerry died over 7 years ago...

But there are a signifigant number of side-projects by bobby, mickey, and phil, to fill up that void. Not to mention bands like Phish, Government Mule, String Cheese Incident, and what have you...

Deadheads are deadheads forever, unlike "ravers" who usually last 6 months at best...

[Teenage Riot]

kosmicdog is right, dead shows and your typical rave are lightyears apart. this person went to the concerts as an OBSERVER, not a participant. it is obvious from his article. he is your typical music reviewer, totally clueless.

[Teenage Riot]

Plus there seemed to be a large number of "Jerry's Kids" that went from GD tour to the "RAVE" scene. no stats to back that up however it did sceme to be a common occurance.

i'd disagree. i think alot of them are still following phil lesh and the others around today. at least the ones i know..

[lil bull]

as for phish WON'T DO IT..... some of the other shows are great dso and some of the other cover band still make me remenice (SP*) futher and Phill and freinds, Rat dog,,, all good (string cheese and them are just openers for wsp)




my first party was spundae "???" not sure there 95 or so? first dead show same year.MILE HIGH



ON a side note: Wouldn't you rather see Deisel Boy or Aprodite, even local shows that are regional than soome played out hippy shit??

[lil bull]

by the by someone gave me my first "candy" at some usc/naf party mostly I Have considered myself a KAndieGraver since then! in the last "six months" that "we" have been ravin "we" have been to more than 100 "raves" not bad for a short term "raver"

[lil bull]

AHHH should be trollin!

[flumP]

my first experiance with tekno was outside a grateful deadshow in shoreline california. there was a bus called "the disco bus" among the tourheads. i remember the license plate, "ELLISD". couldnt ferget it. these guy would show up with their bus and pull out the tables in the parkinglot and create one of the best spots in the lot. for about 100 feet in all directions there was people dancin(to the beats).that was also right about when some one came by sellin "sugar" for $60 a gram. i was hipiie flippin b4 i knew what it was. the first time i rn into these guys they were givin out free nitrous. to much fun and it changed my path forever, not right away but eventualy i found myself bummpin more and more.

[186k\sec]

"What had begun as an inclusive rallying point for outcasts became a provincial closed society"

Not only do I think that quote is that applicable to the rave scene but also any of the other electronic "genre" scenes as well.

"outcasts" ? - sure, from the conservatives perspective..
but corporate / commercialists - were 'cutting edge', Hip & Avante Guard

its kindof funny,, the first time i ever saw somebody dance with a glowstick - was at a dead show - oakland. '87...
i think he even was wearing an addias & giving out candy.

[Kore (P.I.)]

Originally posted by lil bull
by the by someone gave me my first "candy" at some usc/naf party mostly I Have considered myself a KAndieGraver since then! in the last "six months" that "we" have been ravin "we" have been to more than 100 "raves" not bad for a short term "raver"

a scenester will always be a scenester...but how many people went to only a few dead shows..and now give narrow-minded opinions on how they are run and what goes on there..theres the only similarity with the "rave" scene..the fratboy slime and drunken asssholes are going to talk shit about how they never had "fun" at a party or how they used to "rule" the scene when they "were" "in" "it". I'm glad to hear that you've been to 100 raves in the past 6 months.. and i'm sure "everyone" "else" is glad to hear it as well.. but didnt you just say that your first party was a Spundae thing in 1995..thats longer than 6 months ago..lay off the drugs kid.
my $ .1/2 cent

[djtrainwreck]

I think it is possible to cull similarities from any scene, regardless if the music is electronic or not. The "rave" scene, is just that..a scene. Just follow the history of any scene, take punk for an example.

[ILYA]

lame people suck... big red floppy donkey dick... just an observation

and yeah the article sucked that thing too

[Cedwyn]

ummmm, yeah...what kosmic said. that article is so full of shit. in fact, i double-dog dare the author to tell mickey hart that he's musically lazy, or uninspired or what the fuckever. duder went to the wrong shows or something, which brings me to my next point:
is that a dis?
Ten shows or so would give him something of a clue.
not at all - 10 shows doesn't mean jack, especially if they were all from the same tour season. it especially means fuck all since we have no clue what venues and shows he saw. they varied wildly, with marked differences in east coast vs. west coast shows.

homeslice is just bitter because he didn't get it.

as for similarities between dead and rave culture, forget about it. with the exception of smaller parties, the vibe is just not as solid as at a dead show. if you've been to a "rave" where 50,000 people were grooving in harmony and the power of it was just overwhelming, then feel free to keep arguing. if not, please stop. i've been there, i've seen it, i've felt the stadium shake. i cannot conceive of any rave event equaling it.

otherwise, the similarities are colorfully-dressed, beautiful people sharing love and being playful, all of which are good!

[djowns]

Originally posted by Cedwyn
if you've been to a "rave" where 50,000 people were grooving in harmony and the power of it was just overwhelming, then feel free to keep arguing. if not, please stop. i've been there, i've seen it, i've felt the stadium shake. i cannot conceive of any rave event equaling it.

You reach that point one person at a time, one good vibe at a time. Raves won't hit that point unless you let them. Do you goto a party thats not going off, give up on it... or do you try and take it to that point where the vibe is incredible, even if the sound sucks, the venue is dirty and the DJ isn't a superstar?

Kosmic dog, well we know what you do. I'd dig up the quote were I motivated but it went something like "Turn to my friends, shrug, and leave".

So yeah parties are smaller now, cause we're missing those people who shrug and leave. Anyone really miss them?

I don't get why people are sweating things, raves aren't suffering lately. A good time amongst good friends is still there, only difference is you actually have to work a bit at it these days and keep yourself optimistic.

[Kosmicdog]

Originally posted by TheLiquid1


Kosmic dog, well we know what you do. I'd dig up the quote were I motivated but it went something like "Turn to my friends, shrug, and leave".

Liquid one, you are a fucktard.

Last time I saw you at the un-cool school, the one time I have ever been there, the only thing you said was "what are you doing here, rob hates you" (someone I have never even met) for some shit I said to him on a STUPID FUCKING INTERNET MESSAGE BOARD. Way to bring the vibe, you whiny little twat.

*flips you off, shrugs, and leaves*

[djowns]

Originally posted by Kosmicdog

"what are you doing here, rob hates you" (someone I have never even met)

Followed by which you said "Hey do me a favor and not tell anyone I'm here" That night I didn't let anyone know you were there.

As for what you said on an internet message board, it's as much of a form of communication as saying it directly... only it has a larger audience at times.

:)

[Kosmicdog]

Originally posted by TheLiquid1


Followed by which you said "Hey do me a favor and not tell anyone I'm here" That night I didn't let anyone know you were there.

dude.

I told you that after you told me i wasn't welcome. I did not come in and request that you tell "no one" that I was there. I asked you not to go running to rob (who I don't even know what looks like) because I don't care for the drama. I don't know who the fuck "anyone" is, and I'm not hiding from them, because I already know who "everyone" is.

keep on sucking up to people coming up. keep recycling crews who can't seem to keep their shit together. I have been in portland since way before you, and will be here long after you are gone, so keep on being a little wannabe.

You should stick to the music end of things. You aren't bad, and you have gotten alot better, despite the fact that everyone who knows anything and tried to be a friend to you *coughaxiomcough* saw you for who you really are later than most did. I stopped ragging on you. I forgot about you, didn't give a fuck. But you had to go dragging old shit up on some dumb grateful dead thread that was started when you were a senior in high school 3400 miles away.

I'm done. I'm not responding to your juvenile bait on nwtekno anymore. Ive said my piece, and wash my hands of you.

have fun raving.

[djowns]

Note the "followed by". All those dead head shows you've hit must be catching up with you, cause you just took what I said and repeated it :)

I will happen to keep on raving :)