Who dropped the World Trade Center?...follow the money!!

[Effendi]

.
Israeli Company Mum About WTC Pullout

WTC investigators should follow the money trail. It could provide critical information about the Sept. 11 terror attacks.
Exclusive to American Free Press,
By Christopher Bollyn

WHILE an Israeli real estate magnate from Australia insured his 99-year lease on the retail space of the World Trade Center against terrorism, one of Israel's biggest companies pulled out of the north tower just days before Sept. 11.

AFP has learned from a reliable source in the shipping industry that Zim American Israeli Shipping Co., Inc. broke the lease when it vacated the rented offices on the 16th and 17th floors of the north tower of the World Trade Center shortly before the Sept. 11 disaster.

According to the source, Zim's WTC office space had been leased until the end of the year and the company lost $50,000 when it suddenly pulled out in the beginning of September.

The parent company, Zim Israel Navigation Co., is nearly half-owned by the state of Israel, the other half held by Israel Corp. Zim is one of the world's largest container shipping companies, operating an international network of shipping lines.

AFP repeatedly contacted Zim American Israeli Shipping Co., Inc. at its new American headquarters in Norfolk, Va., to inquire about the company's pulling out of its WTC lease early.

AFP was told that the only person who could discuss the matter was the company president, Shaul Cohen-Mintz, who was said to be unavailable until Dec. 4.

AFP also contacted the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, the original owner of the World Trade Center, and was told to contact Silverstein Properties, owner of the World Trade Center since July 24.

Silverstein passes all media related questions to the public relations company of Howard J. Rubenstein, which also represents the state of Israel.

Steve Solomon of Rubenstein told AFP that the company "had no information on the leases" and advised AFP to contact the tenant directly.

Calls to Ezra Bentob of Zim's legal department were not returned.

An Israeli businessman from Australia, Frank Lowy, had recently acquired the 99-year lease for the 425,000 square foot retail portion of World Trade Center before the WTC attacks of Sept. 11, reported The Jerusalem Post on Sept. 12.

Lowy is chairman and founder of Westfield Holdings, and the manager of Westfield America Trust, which has a 57 percent stake in Westfield America Inc. In April 2001, Westfield America agreed to pay $400 million for the lease on the complex though only $133 million was paid; the rest was to be made in ground lease payments.

Lowy is the second wealthiest man in Australia and was recently ranked as the 209th wealthiest man in the world by Forbes magazine. Westfield is the fourth-largest shopping mall owner, with operations in Australia, the United States, the United Kingdom and New Zealand.

Westfield was insured against terrorist attacks and its earnings will not be materially affected.

In a statement to the Australian Stock Exchange the retail chain said that "investment in the retail component of the World Trade Center is fully insured for both capital and loss of income," adding "the insurance coverage includes acts of terrorism.

The parent company, Zim Israel Navigation Co., is nearly half-owned by the state of Israel, the other half held by Israel Corp.

http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/02/09/AmericanFreePress0902.html

Scott!!

[Effendi]

.
In Hebrew, from Yediot America

November 2, 2001

LAST Thursday we arrived at the detention facility of the immigration authorities in Brooklyn. The penitentiary stands in the heart of a blue-collar neighborhood, next to a chewing gum factory which spreads its sweet scent all around. Before we got used to the smell, we were stopped in a blockade four blocks from the jail. Two FBI agents wearing bulletproof vests told us we couldn't proceed without a permit. "But you can photograph the building from any other direction, as long as you won't enter the restricted area," they explained courteously.

Following their advice, we went to the back of the building, where there was a police barrier and an empty police car. The photographer started snapping his camera but after 30 seconds about 20 FBI agents appeared out of nowhere and with pointed guns ordered us to surrender our equipment (a camera, a pen and a notebook) and raise our hands. Traffic on the nearby road was immediately stopped and drivers were diverted to a side street. With our hands up and barrels pointing at our necks, we were interrogated by the officers on our actions. We didn't know whether to laugh or cry. We came to the penitentiary writing an article on the Israelis arrested a day after the terrorist attack, and soon, we thought, we'll find ourselves in the cell, next to them.

The story ended with the film's confiscation, a warning not to return and an apology from the force's commander. "You have to understand the situation we're in," he told us and sent us on our way. If until then we didn't fully comprehend how much the city changed during the last couple of months, now we know.

Steven Gordon is the lawyer representing the five detainees, held in Brooklyn. The five, Yaron Shmuel, Oded Helmar, the brothers Paul and Sivan Kretzberg, and a fifth man named Omer, were arrested in New York a few hours after the disaster. They worked for the Urban Moving Company; whose offices are located in Hoboken, New Jersey. The company's offices closed down following the arrests, and the owner, an Israeli named Dominick [Suter], could not be located. Many versions of the reasons leading to the arrests and the events following them have been circulating in the last weeks. Gordon's is the most complete and reliable one.

"On the day of the disaster, three of the five boys went up on the roof of the building where the company office is located," said Gordon. "I'm not sure if they saw the twin towers collapse, but, in any event, they photographed the ruins right afterwards. One of the neighbors who saw them called the police and claimed they were posing, dancing and laughing, against the background of the burning towers. The five denied dancing. I presume the neighbor was not near them and does not understand Hebrew. Furthermore, the neighbor complained that the cheerful gang on the roof spoke Arabic. As far as I understand it, that neighbor has had previous problems with the company, and she could have been waiting for an opportunity to avenge the owners.
"Anyhow, the three left the roof, took an Urban truck, and drove to a parking lot, located about a five-minute drive from the offices. They parked, stood on the roof of the truck to get a better view of the destroyed towers and took photographs. A woman who was in the building above the lot testified that she saw them smiling and exchanging high-fives. She and another neighbor called the police and reported on Middle-Eastern looking people dancing on the truck. They copied and reported the license plates.

"The five men then drove to Yaron's friend's place in New Jersey. At around 2:30 p.m. they decided to go to the Brooklyn apartment of Oded, Sivan and Paul. They headed toward the George Washington Bridge, but, after hearing radio reports about traffic jams and police blockades at entrances to Manhattan, they decided to return to the company's offices in Hoboken and spend the night there. On their way, a policeman stopped them, using the description provided by the neighbors. FBI agents were summoned instantly and the five were arrested."

The agents found a few items that raised their suspicion. Yaron, who also has a German nationality, had two passports, and $4,000 in cash were found in the belongings of one of the men. Police were also alarmed that none of the five were American. News broadcasts reported that a truck full of explosives was caught on its way to blow up the George Washington Bridge. Photos of the Urban truck accompanied the reports, which said there were five young men in the truck, apparently terrorists, who were taken to an FBI facility.

The five were taken to a police station near the Meadowlands sports complex. Gordon said that the FBI agents who questioned them understood after a few hours of interrogation that the suspects had no connection to the World Trade Center disaster and no intention of blowing up a bridge. But during the investigation, it was found the men had no work permits and that some were staying in the United States illegally. The agents called the Immigration and Naturalization Services, which took responsibility for the detainees.

The days turned into weeks, and the five are still under arrest. Gordon said he did not understand why.

"The authorities know for certain they are not involved in the attack. The simplest explanation is the lack of manpower in the INS. I think the paperwork in their case just didn't reach whoever should sign the release. . . It's not supposed to take 120 days, maybe 120 minutes. All the answers I got about this issue were bull. . . In the detention facility, I was told they are not there, which is a total lie. I have no sensible explanation for why they are still arrested."

Translated from the Hebrew by Oren Yaniv.

http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/02/03/WTC/spies10.html

Scott!!

[Mike S]

Stay tuned next next week kids when Scott reveals to the world a secret Jewish plot to control the minds of Americans by hiding subliminal messages in tv shows and movies!!!

Hey Scott My friend Kaleb quit his job in the WTC and moved to the west coast days before they were attacked... maybe he's got something to do with the attacks too.. huh?


You know whats really fucked up Scott is that you have a child whos mind I'm sure you've totally infected with the same illness that has totally consumed yours. Hate.

Thanks Scott.. One more generation fucked up because of their parents.

MS

[Enkidu Kind]

Mike,

Are you implying that the Israelis are innocent of any and all charges? I'm not taking sides or anything, but I would not be the least surprised if it were proven that the towers were felled by an Israeli plot. What better a way to deal with the "Arab Menace?" Piss off the most powerful nation in the world and let them deal with those plucky Arabs while the Israelis sit smiling on the sidelines. It seems like it could be a likely scenario to me.

[djowns]

Perhaps a more interesting money trail is the company on the top floor of tower two.

The day the towers went down they cut all benefits to their now dead employee's. That company recieved money from their insurance, and actually benefited from the fall of the towers (or so I read).

Regardless I'm not posting to be flamed, just posting some thoughts.

peace

[Effendi]

Originally posted by Mike S
Stay tuned next next week kids when Scott reveals to the world a secret Jewish plot to control the minds of Americans by hiding subliminal messages in tv shows and movies!!!

Hey now, I would never make you wait an entire week to fill you in on the details...

Of course we have seen that this is only Psych-weirdness from Effendi, and of course has no bearing on the real truth in the world.!!

But I do love it when you respond with such Juvenality for which you are so famous, it lets me know that I'm onto the truth and you hate the light shed on truth!!

Hey Scott My friend Kaleb quit his job in the WTC and moved to the west coast days before they were attacked... maybe he's got something to do with the attacks too.. huh?

Yea...good call Mike, maybe you should call some of your little "friends" in the Government and tell them about him. It is just about your speed!!

You know whats really fucked up Scott is that you have a child whos mind I'm sure you've totally infected with the same illness that has totally consumed yours. Hate.

Hahhahahahaha....you truely are a dumbass Mike.
Despite the fact that she's only 17, she (unlike you) has allready managed to think for herself, and not just follow the rest of the idiotic lemmings like yourself over a cliff!!

Thanks Scott.. One more generation fucked up because of their parents.
MS
And what have YOU offered the world Mike?
Besides your fucked up attitude and opinion.
Thank God it was ME who spawned an Intelligent self thinking young lady....and not you!!

Scott!!

[seattle science]

Originally posted by seattle science
Al-Jazeera.net must have a forum that would better suit your purposes.

[Effendi]

.

I post up on Al-Jazeera almost as often as I post up on your mom!!

Scott!!

[Mike S]

Originally posted by Enkidu Kind
Mike,

Are you implying that the Israelis are innocent of any and all charges? I'm not taking sides or anything, but I would not be the least surprised if it were proven that the towers were felled by an Israeli plot. What better a way to deal with the "Arab Menace?" Piss off the most powerful nation in the world and let them deal with those plucky Arabs while the Israelis sit smiling on the sidelines. It seems like it could be a likely scenario to me.

Yes I am. I think that is the most assinine thing I have ever heard and with all due respect that line of reasoning is more the product of paranoia and prejudice than it is logic.

What you are implying is an out growth of that "sneaky, plotting jew" stereo type not anything tangeable or known and it makes me sick to read it considering how "enlightened" so many people around here claim to be. Yeah right the jews plotted to take down the towers knowing full well exactly what we would do afterwards...or let me guess.. there's a jewish cospiracy directing our military actions too?

Do you see how fucked up that is? I wonder if the company that moved out of the builing had been owned by people of a different nationality or heritage would you people have jumped to the same conclussions?

I doubt it.

Thats one of the fucked up thing about prejudice... you never know you are untill someone else has to point it out to you.

I read these jew/isreali bashing posts, the great many of which are cospiratorial & jumping to wild, baseless conclssions and accusing the jews of basically being knuckle dragging animals and I ask myself how long a post like that would stay open if its subject were women or blacks or hispanics?

That not to say that legitimately critisizing Isreal is anti-semaetic or prejudiced - but legitmately criticzng something or somebody usually doesnt invlove digging up or making up wild conspiracy theories and usng a lot of energy vilifying somebody or something liike Scott does.

Scott is a bigot. The reason Scott posts what he does isnt to educate people on the middle east its motivated out of his bigotry. Why he gets a pass on this board to be a bigot from you people is beyond me.

Is bigotry ok as long as the bigot is one of you? Is it that some people on this board expect it to come from a conservative person like myself that when it actually does appear from someone like Scott you cant see it?

In my opinion Scott crossed the "bigot" line a long time ago and it makes me sick.

And Scott you can talk out your ass about how fucking enlightened you are and maybe you can fool some of these people into thinking your not the type of person who woulda been riding around in a bed sheet with a white hood on your head had you been born a hundred years ago in the south but it wont wash with me.

Fix your head buddy ..and if you cant or wont the least you could do is not fuck other peoples heads up with your problem.



MS

[EV]

Syrian defense minister blames WTC, Pentagon attacks on Israel
By Arieh O'Sullivan

TEL AVIV (October 19) - Syrian Defense Minister Mustafa Tlass has blamed the September 11 attacks on the World Trade Center on Israel.

At a meeting in Damascus last week with a delegation from the British Royal College of Defense Studies, Tlass said the Mossad planned the ramming of two hijacked airliners into the WTC's towers as part of a Jewish conspiracy.

He also told the British visitors that the Mossad had given thousands of Jewish employees of the WTC advance warning not to go to work that day.

The Jewish-conspiracy theory started circulating in the Middle East shortly after the terrorist outrages in New York, Washington, and Pennsylvania. The "rationale" was that Israel wanted to provoke US retaliation against the Arab world.

In Israel and in Jewish circles abroad, the theory has been dismissed as a "gross lie." It had been dismissed by Arabists as "wishful thinking" by frustrated Arabs who badly wanted to believe that Muslims were not responsible for the atrocities.

But Tlass's comments last week indicate that it has been commuted to fact among senior Arab officialdom. Experts believe the vile rumor has taken root in the Middle East, thanks to the deep anti-Semitism propagated by Arab governments as well as the myth of the "awesome power" of the Jews.

American Jewish leaders this week urged the Bush administration to debunk the rumor.

"Nobody is challenging this gross lie. Nobody is getting on Arab TV stations and saying it is a lie, it's absurd, and it's a libel," said Abraham Foxman, executive director of the Anti-Defamation League.

David Harris, executive director of the American Jewish Committee, agreed.

"Perhaps the Bush administration doesn't want to confer legitimacy on these canards by even acknowledging their existence. Sadly, this story has taken on a life of its own. It has even reached non-Muslim countries like Greece and South Africa, where Jewish communities have frantically contacted us, asking for help in refuting these charges," Harris said.

"At this point it would be very helpful for the Bush administration and other countries not only to condemn this canard, but to call it by its real name, which is raw, unadulterated anti-Semitism," he said.

In Iran, the hard-line Resalat newspaper last week quoted "experts" as saying the attacks were so complicated they had to have been carried out by the Israeli government and the Mossad.

In Kuwait, where some speakers on television have ridiculed the report, some people have even added embellishments, saying Jews were advised by New York rabbis to sell their holdings in the stock market the day before the attack and did so.

Public opinion data on Arab views on the September 11 attacks is sparse. One poll conducted a week after the attacks and published in the Lebanese newspaper An Nahar found that 31 percent of respondents thought Israel was behind the hijackings, while only 27% thought Saudi-born militant Osama bin Laden was responsible, as the US has charged.

Historian Richard Levy, an expert on anti-Semitism at the University of Illinois in Chicago, said such conspiracy theories have flourished after years during which Arab governments have encouraged crude Jewish conspiracy theories.

"They have encouraged their peoples to explain politics and history by means of myth, lie, and fear. This sort of demagogy will come back to bite them," he said.

"If I were a Pakistani who has internalized what my successive governments have been telling me for years about the awesome power of the Jews and their Israeli pawns, I might well find bin Laden more attractive and inspiring than my so-called leaders," Levy said.

http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2001/10/19/News/News.36550.html

[seattle science]

Originally posted by Effendi
.

I post up on Al-Jazeera almost as often as I post up on your mom!!

Scott!!

Fuck that, I can throw dem thangz. I ain't scared to start static with the renton chapter of Hezbollah.

[Effendi]

.
Originally posted by Enkidu Kind
but I would not be the least surprised if it were proven that the towers were felled by an Israeli plot. What better a way to deal with the "Arab Menace?" Piss off the most powerful nation in the world and let them deal with those plucky Arabs while the Israelis sit smiling on the sidelines. It seems like it could be a likely scenario to me.

Well put!!
I personally have NO proof or even a solid belief that such is the case.
I really don't know.......however..

As you pointed out, it is certainly not past the ability or desire of the israelis to have put together such a plot.

When ever a murder is committed (I watch Forensic files on the Discovery channel) it seems that the police or FBI have a certain checklist of items they go down in order to solve the crime. Such things as motivation and benefit are always near the top of the list.

Although we as Americans would love to believe that there is no way an ALLY of ours would betray us like this, the fact of the matter remains that Winston Churchhill was aware of the impending Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, and since England so desperately wanted the US to assist them before they got snuffed, they "Allowed" America to be attacked without warning in order to draw us into WW11.

I realize that such a scenario is anathema to Mike S, SS, and anyone else who holds their jewish blood over their patriotism to America. This is exactly why I have no compulsion calling these type of people Traitors to their own country. Not because they would be covertly traiterous to their fellow Americans, but simply because they allow their own beliefs and judgements to rule out the possability that we are getting played like a fiddle.

Once again, I do not "KNOW" that israel had anything to do with 9-11, but it is abundantly clear that they had the most to gain from causing America to go take out the people who most threaten their conquests.

Scott!!

[burnt]

wait, wait, I know! even better than a big, cumbersome organization, I have this totally wacky conspiracy theory! kay, check it.......

it was the trenchcoat mafia. no, wait, the towelheaded beard krew. yyyyeaaaaaa, TBK reprazentin muthafucka! *thats* who took out the towers, not a huge organization, but a flexible small one! you know, an isolated crew, running on their own unique agenda! sort of like........ohhhhh.....a terrorist organization.

see, here's my theory - a bunch of big, western corporate types (ultimately funded by Jews, cuz, hey, they're demographically a shrewd bunch with their fingers in a profit anywhere....I mean....demographically, they just are, ain't like a plot, its just greed...but I digress), anyway, these suits, they were all jazzed up on new defense spending and global commerce in tiny section8 nations. they hired women and children, gave them a sense of hope and a McDonald's down the street, got em good and wet, and pulled out at the last minute. ah, Western thought....... =)

anyway, meanwhile, a bunch of lazy, section8 nations finally got out of the welfare line and got a fuckin job. then the job did the typical jobby-job bullshit of firing them all with no notice and no severance and no more of the sweet, delicious Hope.

from within one of the section8 nations, a "crew" if you will, were convinced by a combination of Eastern Ideals, Western Business ethics, Jewish funding, and good old fashioned guerilla vengeance, to commit a terrible, terrible........................isolated incident. guess they weren't as used to someone date-raping their job as those of us in more sophisticated cultures.



but, hahahahahahaha, thats just crazy talk. why, to admit that, we'd have to admit that most of the Axis of Evil would easily simmer down if we offerred them a simple apology for our own misdeeds, and that they aren't encumbered by unmalleable thought patterns, ideals, morals, etc. oh yea, and we'd have to admit that maybe we're guilty of mortally pissing off naive section8 nations.

but Effendi, dude, motherfuckers get hired and fired on a whim everyday. even September 10th. its fucked up............yea, I could see how it would piss off a naive towelhead if some skinny fuckin weasel from Mahnattan fired his mama on a whim. but anyway, carry on...

[mchll888]

I don't read much of this crap................
I think anyone can prove a point to anything, in their own mind, because there are multiple sources with multiple views on anything...........
I could post 10 reports that say UFO's are real and another 10 that say they are a hoax.
Debate all you want.................it's a waste of breath though.

BURNT - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

[seattle science]

Wait, I know what really happened. Palestinians carried out the attack on 9/11, then had the most powerful nation on earth blame Arabs so that eventually morons would start believing that the whole thing was planned by Jews (as seen here), thus creating more fantastic Jew-hate.

[EV]

Effendi's "source" is Focal Point Publishing, spearheaded by uberNeoNazi David Irving, who is best known for championing Holocaust Denial - denying the death of 6 million Jews - and propogating a 'Revisionist History of Adolf Hitler,' casting the dictator in a "positive" light.

Thought that might interest some of you on the fence...


EV

[burnt]

so that means it could never be true, right?

I'm reminded of the scene in that one movie about JFK, where that one attorney is defending a witness, and says, "just because the woman is a prostitute doesn't mean she has bad eyesight." or was that Perry Mason? damn short term memory......

[Effendi]

Originally posted by Mike S

Yes I am. I think that is the most assinine thing I have ever heard and with all due respect that line of reasoning is more the product of paranoia and prejudice than it is logic.

Spoken as if out of the mouth of Sharon......

What you are implying is an out growth of that "sneaky, plotting jew" stereo type not anything tangeable or known and it makes me sick to read it considering how "enlightened" so many people around here claim to be.

Sorry Mike, once again your jumping to conclussions. Nothing was "Implied" it was a suggested that we should consider who our "Real" enemies are.

Of course it would make you sick, the closer we get to exploring the possable origins of the 9-11 attack, The less likely we AMERICANS are going to listen to you and wankers lies!!

Yeah right the jews plotted to take down the towers knowing full well exactly what we would do afterwards...or let me guess.. there's a jewish cospiracy directing our military actions too?

Hahahha, we all know that is completely out of the relm of possability!!

Do you see how fucked up that is?

Why do you think it disturbs us so?

Thats one of the fucked up thing about prejudice... you never know you are untill someone else has to point it out to you.

O so now our search for the truth makes us Prejudice?

I read these jew/isreali bashing posts, the great many of which are cospiratorial & jumping to wild, baseless conclssions and accusing the jews of basically being knuckle dragging animals and I ask myself how long a post like that would stay open if its subject were women or blacks or hispanics?

Give it up Mike, your no Bill O-reilly, and your not even capable of a decent spin....lol

That not to say that legitimately critisizing Isreal is anti-semaetic or prediced - but legitmately criticzng something or somebody usually doesnt invlove digging up or making up wild conspiracy theories and usng a lot of energy vilifying somebody or something liike Scott does.

so by digging up the truth, I'm "making up wild conspiracy theories"?...lol
So most news people that dig up the truth are wild conspirists....lol

Scott is a bigot.

And Mike is an Idiot American with his head in the sand......lol

The reason Scott posts what he does isnt to educate people on the middle east its motivated out of his bigotry.

The gospel according to a Republican.
I say (like usual) let the people judge for themselves.
Are you scared of having all the facts presented to people so they can make their own choices Mike?
I'm sure you would rather everyone listen to you and that fucking idiot in the White House instead. Unfortunately for you and them, I am a thinking man, that is very capable of dicerning truth on my own.

Why he gets a pass on this board to be a bigot from you people is beyond me.

It must be that this board is full of Anti-Semeic idiot children with under-developed liberal minds.....lol....right Mike?

Is bigotry ok as long as the bigot is one of you? Is it that some people on this board expect it to come from a conservative person like myself that when it actually does appear from someone like Scott you cant see it?

Yea..that's it Mike, the idiots on this board are Blind as well as stupid...

If only we could all " Be like Mike"

In my opinion Scott crossed the "bigot" line a long time ago and it makes me sick.

Hahahahahahahhahahah............Well I guess Opinions are like Assholes, or in your case, Opinons are assholes!!....lol
I do relish in the fact that your are sick, it comes from so many years of following blindly. Be your own Man Mike, stop listening to men in power who are clearly even dumber than you are.

And Scott you can talk out your ass about how fucking enlightened you are and maybe you can fool some of these people into thinking your not the type of person who woulda been riding around in a bed sheet with a white hood on your head had you been born a hundred years ago in the south but it wont wash with me.

O so now I'm a Member of the KKK.....lol
Well shiver my KKK Hezbollah timbers.....lol

Fix your head buddy ..and if you cant or wont the least you could do is not fuck other peoples heads up with your problem.
MS
Hahahahhahahahaha....hey Mike........let me guess, I should go to the people who "Fixed" your head.......lol

Scott!!

[tekkno30]

did you hear though, that everyone conflicted by the wtc disaster family friends....ect are sueing the Bin Laudin family for 100 trillion dollars... thats alot of fuckin cash if the american people were to win the class action lawsuit .......geez wtf where would all the fuckin ca$h come from?? the Bin Laudins arent that rich.! for the sake of the U.S.A. i hope that we do win.

[Effendi]

Originally posted by LA2SeattlEV
Effendi's "source" is Focal Point Publishing, spearheaded by uberNeoNazi David Irving, who is best known for championing Holocaust Denial - denying the death of 6 million Jews - and propogating a 'Revisionist History of Adolf Hitler,' casting the dictator in a "positive" light.


ACTUALLY, I got that article from alink I found online at a UK daily newspaper, you are much more informed than I as to the original source of information.

I guess the bottom line is, "Could it be true"?

Does the legitamacy of a truth lie in it's author?

I did notice that YOUR version of the story came from the Jerusalem Post...Now THAT is certainly a reputable source....lol.....

Thought that might interest some of you on the fence...
EV
On the fence?
is that how you see this thing?
HOW ABOUT THE TRUTH ABOUT WHO KILLED AMERICANS?

I could give a fuck about political alliances or juvenile prejudices, To me, this is all about the death of my Fellow Americans...Nothing more nothing less!!

Scott!!

[bago]

Wonder why the story is exclusive to the "American Free Press". No-one else would have such a shody un-substantiated article. Just so you know, it's a conspiracy site, dedicated to all of the crackpot theories and "stories" which are not fact checked, but spread about in a breathy style of journalism giving them an air of authority.

Observe the mad quote tag action:

AFP also contacted the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, the original owner of the World Trade Center, and was told to contact Silverstein Properties, owner of the World Trade Center since July 24.

Silverstein passes all media related questions to the public relations company of Howard J. Rubenstein, which also represents the state of Israel.


Allow me to paraphrase:
We really don't know much about the WTC for this story, we don't even know who owned it. So we placed some phone calls and found out that it was owned by a JEW! who has another JEW run his media exposure. Therefore everything they say is suspect.


It's really quite sad to see pseudo-intellectual rantings like this go on and on. When you're convinced that some dirty jew tricked UBL into blowing up the same towers he tried to blow up before, and hide it in some attacks on the white house and pentagon, just so the US would invade Afghanistan... so that Israel could do... something... jews.. behind every corner!!!

You can see how it all makes sense if you think occam's razor is something Occam used to shave in the morning.

There's no point trying to debate him on the facts. Each missing peice of evidence in his chain is just more proof that the conspiracy is working. It's an article of faith, not logic. He is convinced he see the light and his righteous crusade will not end until the rest of the world knows. It's patently ironic too, because often these self "enlightened" people openly despise other people equally dogmatic about articles of faith, calling them weak minded and needing the crutch of their particular "religion". Being righteous (but wrong) means never having to say "I'm sorry"

I just hope that this revalatory style doesn't infect anyone else and make them equally as dogmatic.

[Mad Vinnie]

Originally posted by Effendi
.
I realize that such a scenario is anathema to Mike S, SS, and anyone else who holds their jewish blood over their patriotism to America.
Scott!!

I have oh so little respect for anything you say. We are a nation of many colors and of many backgrounds. To suggest that pride in one's heritage comprimises one's sense of patriotism is to deny who we are as Americans. Being patriotic isn't about blindly lashing out on impulses of hate. The old saying, "If you're not with us, you're against us," is used to scare people into a cause withouth thinking about that cause. Patriotism is about practicing our right to think, act, and behave as we please while respecting our neighbor's right to do the same, even if we don't understand that neighbor.

You say we can't rule this possibility out, but we shouldn't perpetuate such a scenario when not a shred of evidence can prove it to be true.

-VINCE

[DJ Rawkus]

The fact remains that Jews are about as likely to have their hands in every crackpot scheme as any other race. I don't believe this backasswards "journalism" for one second... however, showing a new facet of info usually erupts a crowd into 'Oohs and Aahs' and people start considering their options instead of just being spoonfed morons. There's nothing wrong with exposing a new idea, but when that idea seems to point at the same people, i start to smell bigotry and racism. And if anything, i HATE racism. I'm not taking any sides as to the validity of this story, it could be true, it could be false. I don't really care WHO did it as much as i care WHY they did it. If Jews are at fault, they are as likely as anyone else in my book. Oh yeah and Mike needs to quit whining and be a gay black woman for a week. Then he'd really have something to cry about.

[Effendi]

Originally posted by Mad Vinnie

I have oh so little respect for anything you say.

Hahahahahahhaha...nice to meet you also......lol

You say we can't rule this possibility out, but we shouldn't perpetuate such a scenario when not a shred of evidence can prove it to be true.
-VINCE

So in your view, exploring obvious possabilities equates to perpetuating false scenarios's?

There was no proof that Hoover wore pink panties...until recently..

Don't make me list the endless facts that took thirty years to surface.

I'm not a fucking politician, Although proof is an excellent thing, professionals make it their business to make such "Proof" almost impossable to find except through time.

I go with the obvious facts and follow my heart than determine the truth.

Once again..NO WHERE did I say that the zionists were responsable for 9-11, although I still consider the distict possablilty.

Scott!!

[Mad Vinnie]

In my view you are anti-semetic. That's how you come across to me. So I'd tend to not believe anything you say on the subject of jews, as I'd just write it off as the rants and raves of a racist blinded by hate. Until you can prove to me that you can view this situation impartially its going to be very hard for me to believe or respect anything you say. It seems to me you're just digging for dirt, trying to prove to others what you are so sure of yourself, that jews aren't to be trusted. I've come across too many bigots in my life to swallow everything you write without being suspicious of your intentions.

Sorry,
vince

[Mike S]

Originally posted by tekkno30
did you hear though, that everyone conflicted by the wtc disaster family friends....ect are sueing the Bin Laudin family for 100 trillion dollars... thats alot of fuckin cash if the american people were to win the class action lawsuit .......geez wtf where would all the fuckin ca$h come from?? the Bin Laudins arent that rich.! for the sake of the U.S.A. i hope that we do win.

Actually the suit has been expanded to include Bin Laden and the government of Iraq. Totalling one trillion dollars.

Even if our military doesnt get em - our collection agents will.

MS

[Mad Vinnie]

I thought lawsuits were only legally binding between citizens of the United States. No court of ours has the authority to determine that someone in another country owes one of our citizens money.

-mv

[Mike S]

Originally posted by Effendi

Spoken as if out of the mouth of Sharon......

Sorry Mike, once again your jumping to conclussions. Nothing was "Implied" it was a suggested that we should consider who our "Real" enemies are.

Of course it would make you sick, the closer we get to exploring the possable origins of the 9-11 attack, The less likely we AMERICANS are going to listen to you and wankers lies!!

Hahahha, we all know that is completely out of the relm of possability!!

Why do you think it disturbs us so?

O so now our search for the truth makes us Prejudice?

Give it up Mike, your no Bill O-reilly, and your not even capable of a decent spin....lol

so by digging up the truth, I'm "making up wild conspiracy theories"?...lol
So most news people that dig up the truth are wild conspirists....lol

And Mike is an Idiot American with his head in the sand......lol

The gospel according to a Republican.
I say (like usual) let the people judge for themselves.
Are you scared of having all the facts presented to people so they can make their own choices Mike?
I'm sure you would rather everyone listen to you and that fucking idiot in the White House instead. Unfortunately for you and them, I am a thinking man, that is very capable of dicerning truth on my own.

It must be that this board is full of Anti-Semeic idiot children with under-developed liberal minds.....lol....right Mike?

Yea..that's it Mike, the idiots on this board are Blind as well as stupid...

If only we could all " Be like Mike"

Hahahahahahahhahahah............Well I guess Opinions are like Assholes, or in your case, Opinons are assholes!!....lol
I do relish in the fact that your are sick, it comes from so many years of following blindly. Be your own Man Mike, stop listening to men in power who are clearly even dumber than you are.

O so now I'm a Member of the KKK.....lol
Well shiver my KKK Hezbollah timbers.....lol

Hahahahhahahahaha....hey Mike........let me guess, I should go to the people who "Fixed" your head.......lol

Scott!!

You know what Scott I would love to be able to see and talk about all the facts concerning many subjects. If I had them all in front of me and I presented them to you would you believe them if what was presented totally contradicted your world view? No.
Where the rest of us have opinions on how we think things ought to happen so as to eventually help the most people your views, in my opinion, are shaped by hate. Unfortunately thats not the worste part. The worste part is there are people who actually respect and believe what you say and in turn become like you becuase they dont know any better or because, when you're not acting out your bigotry, you come across as a pretty good guy.

If you want to hate jews and embrace that kind of energy do it on your own time and in your own space. Personally I'm all out of tollerance for the intollerant such as yourself and am seriously considering asking that every time you start one of your jew bashing rants it be locked.

If that sounds over the top I'm sorry Scott and maybe someone will point out to me that I'm over reacting but as for right now I really think you should post your hate on hate boards.. not here. On any other subject youre fun to debate and read (even if I think you're a out to lunch) but when it comes to this stuff you get down right disturbing.

Mike

[Mike S]

Originally posted by Mad Vinnie
I thought lawsuits were only legally binding between citizens of the United States. No court of ours has the authority to determine that someone in another country owes one of our citizens money.

-mv

I dont know how it works or if there was a judgement against the plaintiffs there is any means to collect but this shure does have me interested in finding out.

MS

[Effendi]

Originally posted by Mad Vinnie
In my view you are anti-semetic.

Yea...yea...yea....been there , heard that...whatever!!

That's how you come across to me. So I'd tend to not believe anything you say on the subject of jews, as I'd just write it off as the rants and raves of a racist blinded by hate.

Blah...blah...blah........if it makes you feel better, or gives you comfort that you have me all figured out....Good!!

Until you can prove to me that you can view this situation impartially its going to be very hard for me to believe or respect anything you say.

Proove to you?
How long have you been reading these posts?
I'm not trying to proove anything to anyone, I just present the facts (and obviously sometimes ideas) and it's up to any intelligence you may have to discern the truth....if you can!!

It seems to me you're just digging for dirt, trying to prove to others what you are so sure of yourself, that jews aren't to be trusted.

Please..........give me a fucking break!!
They should not be trusted any more or any less than any other world citizen who does NOT have the best interest of America at hand!!

I've come across too many bigots in my life to swallow everything you write without being suspicious of your intentions.
Sorry,
vince
Whatever...and don't be sorry, Only a complete idiot would swallow all that another writes, once again it is up to your OWN INTELLIGENCE to differenciate truth from hate..(as you put it)

Scott!!

[Effendi]

Originally posted by Mike S

You know what Scott I would love to be able to see and talk about all the facts concerning many subjects. If I had them all in front of me and I presented them to you would you believe them if what was presented totally contradicted your world view? No.

of course Mike, look man, regardless of the fact that you and I differ on many subjects, I am (at the very least) as Intelligent as you are. And IF your "facts concerning many subjects" were true, then of course I would listen. Problem is I have been around as long as you have, and (like you) did not reach the beliefs I have simply and easily. I would bet that all the "Information" you could possably present to me, might also have a very different reality than even YOU think you know!!

your views, in my opinion, are shaped by hate.

Wise deduction grasshopper, and your views my fine man, are shaped by blind idiocy.

Unfortunately thats not the worste part. The worste part is there are people who actually respect and believe what you say

Maybe that's because although I am not always on base and correct,..........most of the time......it's buried truth!!

and in turn become like you becuase they dont know any better or because,

...they actually begin to think for themselves.....
lord forbid they grow up with their preverbial head in the sand Mike, believing that the Republican right that currently runs this country actually have their best interest in mind!!

when you're not acting out your bigotry, you come across as a pretty good guy.

Gee thanks MIke, hopefully someday I'll learn to spin records as well as you do!!

If you want to hate jews

I don't hate jews, I just know who my friends are, and are not!!

and embrace that kind of energy do it on your own time and in your own space.

This is MY time!!
And this is MY space!!

Personally I'm all out of tollerance for the intollerant such as yourself

so your tolerance has no tolerance for the intolerant....lol

and am seriously considering asking that every time you start one of your jew bashing rants it be locked.

Ask yourself for a million dollars also, maybe you'll get that...lol

If that sounds over the top I'm sorry Scott

Don't be sorry, yea, your over the top, but that's OK, because luckily neither one of us have that power!!

I really think you should post your hate on hate boards.. not here.

So we have a difference of opinion politically and you call my opinion hate speech....How convenient.
If I spilled your hard Right Republican line, you would be all " Go Scott"

On any other subject youre fun to debate and read (even if I think you're a out to lunch) but when it comes to this stuff you get down right disturbing.
Mike
My very own sentiments about you Mike..
The biggest difference is, I'm worried about the America for My Children, your arogantly worried (just like wanker) that their might not be enough oil for your next roadtrip.

The BIGGEST difference between you and I Mike, is very simply this: Unlike you, I have the VERY BEST INTEREST of my fellow Americans in mind. What's your motivation?

Scott!!

[Justin]

Of course it was all the Jews fault! I bet the Jews are keeping me from getting a good job, too. America used to be great, before the Jews started throwing their weight around. Hey, you know what we should do. . .?


Fuck. I bet you'd find a way to blame your hangnail on the Jews.

[Justin]

Originally posted by Effendi

Unlike you, I have the VERY BEST INTEREST of my fellow Americans in mind. What's your motivation?

Scott!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[Effendi]

Originally posted by Doc Mahem

Fuck. I bet you'd find a way to blame your hangnail on the Jews.

Is THAT what you get out of this thread?

Sorry Doc, I guess your little sister got on your account, cause your usually not THIS lame.

Tell me your more intelligent than your last post...PLEASE..

Scott!!

[mchll888]

Get off it. Seriously. You are really good at talking but stop blowing it all out of your ass. Go sell some cars or something...............
Flame the suggestion but I believe you about as much as I would a used car salesman..........
babble, babble, babble, babble...................................

[burnt]

m'kay, quick question.

what if....there's some validity to this potential article?

like - what if..........

see, I don't believe that "corporate america" is bad, although I've seen some bad corporate america things. like RJ Reynolds getting together and figuring out how to market to grade schoolers.

but.....
when all was said and done, RJ Reynolds wasn't found to be run by a 90-year old cultist hellbent on restructuring the world's DVD's, or whatever. the "conspiracy" theories surrounding most public manipulation theories - like cigarettes, fast food, etc - are bullshit.

however.

not to say that some fuckers - some coke addicts, if you will - yuppie 20-somethings from the marketing dept, with just enough power - didn't make some fucked-up commercials on purpose. "public manipulation" of grade schooler type ads. I mean.....fact....it happened.

and not to say that some teenager hellbent on exposing the RJ Reynolds "conspiracy" wouldn't dumpster dive to find those facts.

.

you know, this is kinda sounding like the "terrorist" post I made on the last page?

could it be?

?

could it be that a handful of deceptive Jews mighta gotten themselves a section8 patsy? could it be that a handful of Jews acted as irresponsibly as the handful of arabs who plane-dived into the trade center buildings?

could it be that a handful of Jews who would fund both antidrug campaigns as well as pharmeceutical research companies..........could it be that a handful of Jews actually saw the writing on the wall.......kept it to themselves.........and profitted from it???

could it be that a mad dumpster diving hater found a blip of a fact?

even if so - it doesn't matter. it doesn't matter if the "masterminds" behind 9/11 were patsies or geniuses. they acted irresponsibly, and should be brought to justice.




the same truth applies toward *anyone* who had foresight of the 9/11 attacks.

whether or not the userid "Effendi" is a racist is irrelevant. did someone actually dig those facts out of a dumpster? about the *top* floor?

[tekkno30]

Originally posted by Mike S


Actually the suit has been expanded to include Bin Laden and the government of Iraq. Totalling one trillion dollars.

Even if our military doesnt get em - our collection agents will.

MS

thats why i dislike watching the evening news... first they say it's 100 million.. then it's ops we ment 100 trillion... what ever the amount its a fuck load of money.. GO COLLECTION AGENCY..! lol lets get'em one way or another

[tekkno30]

well if y'all know about the 20 dollar bil ltrick and im quit sure y'all do by now. kinda freaky htat ever since the 20 dollar bill has been around the wtc towers are right there up in smoke

[DJ Rawkus]

WORD TO BURNT!!!

<side rant> I think people that are accusing Scott of being racist need to lose the cape and spandex pants and find something worthwhile to extinguish. Racism is all around us everyday. However stomping your feet, pointing fingers, and mudslinging isn't going to change anyone's mind or snuff out any -'ism. As MLK said: "Darkness cannot drive out Darkness. Only Light can do that." </side rant>

[DJ Rawkus]

Originally posted by tekkno30
well if y'all know about the 20 dollar bil ltrick and im quit sure y'all do by now. kinda freaky htat ever since the 20 dollar bill has been around the wtc towers are right there up in smoke Son, plz do us a favor and learn some comprehensive english and then you can try to tackle american history k?

[biscuits]

Originally posted by DJ Rawkus
Son, plz do us a favor and learn some comprehensive english and then you can try to tackle american history k?

*snickers*

you misspelled please :p

[tekkno30]

Originally posted by DJ Rawkus
Son, plz do us a favor and learn some comprehensive english and then you can try to tackle american history k?

um ok i wont knock you for your speach and you dont knock me for mine. besides im from the south we folk all talk like that.. y'all come back now ya hear....lol

[MC Junglitachi Magic Wand]

Originally posted by biscuits

*snickers*

you misspelled please :p

I swear there is a missing comma in there somewhere.

[biscuits]

Originally posted by MC In-Before-The-Lock


I swear there is a missing comma in there somewhere.

i swear there is a missing brain somewhere in your head but you dont see me saying shit ;)

*edited to add a winky face, i dont want you crying over there thinking im serious :D*

[bungle bliss]

...just becaue YOU don't believe in conspiracies, doesn't mean the people who run things don't.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/jointchiefs_010501.html

In the early 1960s, America's top military leaders reportedly drafted plans to kill innocent people and commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities to create public support for a war against Cuba.

Code named Operation Northwoods, the plans reportedly included the possible assassination of Cuban émigrés, sinking boats of Cuban refugees on the high seas, hijacking planes, blowing up a U.S. ship, and even orchestrating violent terrorism in U.S. cities.

More can be read in the article at the link posted above.

And that was just over COMMUNISM. Do't tell me you can't see Bush's oil-rich Administration doing the same thing for their "black crack". These people eat, breath, and shit oil.

Iraq = war for oil, nothing more.

More links about Operation Northwoods:

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/northwoods.html

http://www.rense.com/general18/harm.htm

Don't ever stop questioning the Government's motives.

The only thing that's different bewteen then and now is now they have more tecnical advantages to organize things of this nature.

And we have more technology to catch them. <eg>

Just remember, it's standard FAA procedure to send military jets to intercept planes that have lost communications and gone off-course. WITHIN MINUTES. Please take note of their GAPING ABSENCE last year.

Specifically on one September 11th, 2001.

[NO-ESC]

Originally posted by bungle bliss
Just remember, it's standard FAA procedure to send military jets to intercept planes that have lost communications and gone off-course. WITHIN MINUTES. Please take note of their GAPING ABSENCE last year.

Specifically on one September 11th, 2001.

Definatley look into this more.......lurker out

[Mike S]

Originally posted by bungle bliss
...just becaue YOU don't believe in conspiracies, doesn't mean the people who run things don't.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/jointchiefs_010501.html

In the early 1960s, America's top military leaders reportedly drafted plans to kill innocent people and commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities to create public support for a war against Cuba.

Code named Operation Northwoods, the plans reportedly included the possible assassination of Cuban émigrés, sinking boats of Cuban refugees on the high seas, hijacking planes, blowing up a U.S. ship, and even orchestrating violent terrorism in U.S. cities.

More can be read in the article at the link posted above.

And that was just over COMMUNISM. Do't tell me you can't see Bush's oil-rich Administration doing the same thing for their "black crack". These people eat, breath, and shit oil.

Iraq = war for oil, nothing more.

More links about Operation Northwoods:

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/northwoods.html

http://www.rense.com/general18/harm.htm

Don't ever stop questioning the Government's motives.

The only thing that's different bewteen then and now is now they have more tecnical advantages to organize things of this nature.

And we have more technology to catch them. <eg>

Just remember, it's standard FAA procedure to send military jets to intercept planes that have lost communications and gone off-course. WITHIN MINUTES. Please take note of their GAPING ABSENCE last year.

Specifically on one September 11th, 2001.

Hi bungle - When you're not filling your head with the latest uber-left hate The United States news you should try looking up a story about a certain new england air combat crew that was flying patrol the day of the 11th and were seconds away from the 2nd plane when it struck. Unfortunately the threat assesment pre sept 11 to the united states was so low that there were 4 armed planes on patrol duty that day.
The planes that were close to the second jet took off unarmed because ther was no time to arm them and the pilots had made up their minds they would ram the jet if necessary to bring it down.

Quite a different story from the scenario you imply.

In fact reading over your post most of what you rant about is based on paranoid assumptions from a web site of a dubious nature. I say that because upon reading something from that site I find the story is either something that has been deconstructed and debunked a long time ago, is factually inaccurate, an out right lie or completely unvarafiable.

But then you really arent interested in the truth are you.

MS

[bungle bliss]

Post a link Mike. I'd love to read about it.

Oh, and ABC News was the first to pop up when I typed in Operation Northwoods into Google. Such a DUBIOUS SITE, I don't blame you for disregarding anything they have to say.

Also, the first and second planes to hit the tower- whatever. What about jets 3 and 4?

There's no need to ARM the fucking planes to intercept them. It happens sometimes- planes lose communications or go off course for a variety of reasons. The reason FAA send planes out to intercept them is obvious- the plane could hit another plane. So where were they? Cause they weren't over PA, and the weren't over the Pentagon, like they should have been.

Just questions that I'd like answers to. If your hate-filled assinine replies can answer them, so be it.

[bungle bliss]

NO-ESC- www.copvcia.com is a good link, though I haven't checked it in awhile.

[bungle bliss]

HAHA I just checked www.copvcia.com. Looks like Big Brother is in full-force. Wouldn't be surprised if Mike Ruppert was in some sort of "accident" by the end of the year.

Still a great site, click one of the mirror links.

[Mike S]

Originally posted by burnt
m'kay, quick question.

what if....there's some validity to this potential article?

like - what if..........

see, I don't believe that "corporate america" is bad, although I've seen some bad corporate america things. like RJ Reynolds getting together and figuring out how to market to grade schoolers.

but.....
when all was said and done, RJ Reynolds wasn't found to be run by a 90-year old cultist hellbent on restructuring the world's DVD's, or whatever. the "conspiracy" theories surrounding most public manipulation theories - like cigarettes, fast food, etc - are bullshit.

however.

not to say that some fuckers - some coke addicts, if you will - yuppie 20-somethings from the marketing dept, with just enough power - didn't make some fucked-up commercials on purpose. "public manipulation" of grade schooler type ads. I mean.....fact....it happened.

and not to say that some teenager hellbent on exposing the RJ Reynolds "conspiracy" wouldn't dumpster dive to find those facts.

.

you know, this is kinda sounding like the "terrorist" post I made on the last page?

could it be?

?

could it be that a handful of deceptive Jews mighta gotten themselves a section8 patsy? could it be that a handful of Jews acted as irresponsibly as the handful of arabs who plane-dived into the trade center buildings?

could it be that a handful of Jews who would fund both antidrug campaigns as well as pharmeceutical research companies..........could it be that a handful of Jews actually saw the writing on the wall.......kept it to themselves.........and profitted from it???

could it be that a mad dumpster diving hater found a blip of a fact?

even if so - it doesn't matter. it doesn't matter if the "masterminds" behind 9/11 were patsies or geniuses. they acted irresponsibly, and should be brought to justice.




the same truth applies toward *anyone* who had foresight of the 9/11 attacks.

whether or not the userid "Effendi" is a racist is irrelevant. did someone actually dig those facts out of a dumpster? about the *top* floor?

Burnt I see your point completely - If anyone else had posted it I wouldnt have responded the way I did BUT with Scott there is a pattern to what he says and posts and to me it says bigot. If I thought what was being posted here had anything to do with shedding light on the 11th I'd respond in kind but its not..In my opinion Scott is an anti-semetic bigot and his motivations behind this post or the posts having to do with the middle east have nothing to do with politics and everything to do with hate and everytime he posts this crap and potentially influences another person all he is doing is perpetuating it in my opinion.


Just so you know most of the time I'm a big smart ass and I talk more than my fare share of shit around here I'm know so maybe you might think this is more of the same - its not.

MS

[Mike S]

Originally posted by bungle bliss
Post a link Mike. I'd love to read about it.

Oh, and ABC News was the first to pop up when I typed in Operation Northwoods into Google. Such a DUBIOUS SITE, I don't blame you for disregarding anything they have to say.

Also, the first and second planes to hit the tower- whatever. What about jets 3 and 4?

There's no need to ARM the fucking planes to intercept them. It happens sometimes- planes lose communications or go off course for a variety of reasons. The reason FAA send planes out to intercept them is obvious- the plane could hit another plane. So where were they? Cause they weren't over PA, and the weren't over the Pentagon, like they should have been.

Just questions that I'd like answers to. If your hate-filled assinine replies can answer them, so be it.

Yes Bungle the web site is dubious.. if as you say this story was linked to ABC then its nice to see them attempting to post stories with a least the potential for validity.

Regarding the link..Sorry bungle but its a story I read weeks ago and ya know I didnt think to save the link under the assumption I'd need to someday counter another one of your wild accusatory conspiracies. But seeing that there is a government conspiracy for everything these days I should really start saving them... shouldn't I?
.
I dont know about jets 3 and 4. I'm not even going to bother getting into a discussion in order to attempt and rationalize the how/why/where pertaining to interfcept aircraft on the morning of the 11th. I'd just be assuming in order to contradict someone elses wild accusatory assumptions. Forget it. One of these days you come at me with facts instead of ghosts and boogiemen and maybe I'll get into it.

Never stop questioning the motives of people who perpetuate conspiracy theories.

Oh and if you like copvcia you should see this video of that guy giving a speech at PSU - its interersting unfortunately most of what he has to say is either factually inaccurate or unvarafiable.
He's a big name on the loony left lecture circuit and most likely pulls in close to 6 figures to go around telling his tales. Gosh for that much money if I didnt have any scruples I could make up some serious stories and hit the lecture circuit too.

MS

[bungle bliss]

I dont know about jets 3 and 4. I'm not even going to bother getting into a discussion in order to attempt and rationalize the how/why/where pertaining to interfcept aircraft on the morning of the 11th. I'd just be assuming in order to contradict someone elses wild accusatory assumptions. Forget it. One of these days you come at me with facts instead of ghosts and boogiemen and maybe I'll get into it.

1) Jets 3 and 4 are facts. Glaring ones.

2) You are too predictable.

*sigh*.

[DJ Rawkus]

Originally posted by tekkno30


um ok i wont knock you for your speach and you dont knock me for mine. beside s im from the south we folk all talk like that.. y'all come back now ya hear....lol Well Garsh!! Thanks for telling me old boy.. i'm from the south too. That's not an excuse for bad english. Quit giving the rest of us southern heads a bad name and perpetuating the idea that all Southerners are DRAWLING IDIOTS. In the meantime, go check your head into an alligator farm for christsake.

[DJ Rawkus]

Originally posted by bungle bliss


1) Jets 3 and 4 are facts. Glaring ones.

2) You are too predictable.

*sigh*. I'm confused. Is Mike saying there was no plane 3 or 4..or is he saying that he isn't going to assume where they were heading? I hope for his 'anal health', he says the latter. I had a relative on plane 3 and it certainly DID crash and she DID die on her way back to Hawaii. :( It is a year later and I am still appalled at the lack of news shown on Plane 3. Like it didn't even happen. There's always some blurb about how they were 'heros'..and then we pan back to the main site for more sensationalistic shots and inside accounts.

[Justin]

Originally posted by Mike S


Burnt I see your point completely - If anyone else had posted it I wouldnt have responded the way I did BUT with Scott there is a pattern to what he says and posts and to me it says bigot. If I thought what was being posted here had anything to do with shedding light on the 11th I'd respond in kind but its not..In my opinion Scott is an anti-semetic bigot and his motivations behind this post or the posts having to do with the middle east have nothing to do with politics and everything to do with hate and everytime he posts this crap and potentially influences another person all he is doing is perpetuating it in my opinion.


Just so you know most of the time I'm a big smart ass and I talk more than my fare share of shit around here I'm know so maybe you might think this is more of the same - its not.

MS

Your counterargument to Bungle is so bizzarre, I have trouble figuring out what's going through your mind. The best I can think of is "Bungle says military is bad. I post link say miliary is good." While I do not doubt the patriotism and nobility of lower and higher members of the military, why is it so unimaginable that certain members of the military are bad people? I'm sure it's deeply comforting to be able to divide the whole world into two camps of simple black and white, but things just don't work that way. Yes, the actions of a few fighter pilots are inspiring, but what in god's name does that have to do with the five members of the joint cheifs in 1963?

[Justin]

Originally posted by Effendi


Is THAT what you get out of this thread?

Sorry Doc, I guess your little sister got on your account, cause your usually not THIS lame.

Tell me your more intelligent than your last post...PLEASE..

Scott!!

Those entire articles aren't fact checked or anything. They could be fiction for all we know.

What inside information is a neo-nazi in the UK privilage to? Seriously. Conspiracy theories are most often propogated by people who know the least about what they're talking about.

If I started writing articles about "what really happened" in Xinjaing province, would you believe me?

[tekkno30]

Originally posted by DJ Rawkus
Well Garsh!! Thanks for telling me old boy.. i'm from the south too. That's not an excuse for bad english. Quit giving the rest of us southern heads a bad name and perpetuating the idea that all Southerners are DRAWLING IDIOTS. In the meantime, go check your head into an alligator farm for christsake.

i dont think that all southerners are idiots thats just the way i talk sometimes....... to each their own..... that all ill say about that.

[bungle bliss]

When did I say the military was bad? :confused:

[Justin]

I was just trying to get into mike's head to understand his counterargument, which didn't make much sense unless he thought you were assserting that the military (all of it) was bad.

[Justin]

Once again, attacking the other side of the debate. . .

Here's a good article on conspiracy theories and why they're dumb. There are some discreptancies between this author's explanation of operation Northwoods and more mainstream detalings (which are, wierdly, more extreme in their depictions). I still think it's a great article though. At the bottom I cut and pasted the comments, too, to explain why I stopped going to Indymedia (oh no, I stopped goign tooo indymedia!!11!!!!! I must be CIA!!!!!!11!!!*)

*makes sense if you read indymedia or read the comments on the bottom.

printable version

Stop 911 Conspiracies (Part III)
by flag burner • Wednesday June 05, 2002 at 05:24 AM
"Such confusions don't help the struggle for social justice."

Part III

Conspiracies Or Institutions: 9-11
and Beyond

by Stephen R. Shalom
& Michael Albert

June 2, 2002

(12) What about looking at who benefits to see who must be responsible - doesn't that imply conspiracy?

There is a rule of thumb in mysteries to ask who benefits. This is often useful, but hardly definitive. First of all, we know from mystery writers that there is often more than one suspect with a motive. Does the US government gain from 9-11? Yes. Does Israel? Yes. But what about Russia (which now has a freer hand in Chechnya)? Yes also. How about China? Yes, also, with its free hand in Xinjiang, and the far lower likelihood that the United States will try to isolate it.

If one goes through history and uncritically and mechanically applies the "who benefits?" principle, one finds it a poor guide to understanding. The tragedy of the 1911 Triangle Shirtwaist factory fire (where 146 women died when their employer kept the exit locked to prevent them from taking breaks) was a great boon to the garment workers union -- should we conclude that the union was secretly behind the fire? The bombing of the Sixteenth Street Baptist Church in Birmingham, Alabama, helped galvanize public opinion behind civil rights legislation. Was the bombing a plot by civil rights organizers? The Bolshevik revolution was made possible by World War I. Were the Bolsheviks secretly behind the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand in Sarajevo in 1914? Teddy Roosevelt became president after McKinley's assassination. Was he the secret paymaster behind assassin Leon Czolgosz?

"Who benefits?" has another problem in historical analysis. Sometimes it's quite easy to predict the consequences of an action. Kill your well-insured, wealthy spouse and inherit a lot of money. But what are the consequences in a country teetering on the edge of recession of causing hundreds of billions of dollars of damage? George Bush certainly had the memory of his father's experience, whose war popularity didn't help him win re-election in the face of an economic downturn. And however much one could predict a rallying around the flag in the face of crisis, it is also true that presidents often get blamed for things that go wrong on their watch. As predictable as the wartime bounce in presidential popularity was that the inevitable search for who was responsible would lead many individuals -- an FBI agent here, an FAA bureaucrat there -- to try to cover their own butts by pointing the finger at higher ups. Whether Bush will emerge from all this stronger or weaker is by no means obvious.



(13) But surely the U.S. government is capable of committing atrocities, isn't it? Doesn't that make plausible a conspiracy?

Bush may kill millions of foreigners, millions of faceless Americans (with cigarettes, but probably not machine gun them), and probably not his mother (yes, if she were going to turn him in, etc., but not routinely or easily). Ten members of the ruling class could probably conspire to kill 1,000 foreigners and take the secret with them to their graves, but it is much less likely that they could conspire to kill 1,000 Americans or their mothers and be sure that this would remain a secret.

Conspiracy theorists have pointed to the Operation Northwoods document as proving that U.S. leaders were capable of 9-11. The document is a recently released top secret 1962 memorandum from the Joint Chiefs of Staff proposing the staging of attacks on U.S. targets that would appear to be coming from Cuba, as a way to justify a U.S. attack on the island.

Thus, Jared Israel writes:


That is why Operation Northwoods is so important. For we now know that in 1962 the Joint Chiefs of Staff proposed staging phony attacks to destroy U.S. property, killing Cuban refugees and U.S. citizens, in order to create a wave of indignation and rage, to justify an invasion of Cuba... (http://emperors-clothes.com/i mages/north-int.htm)

[Justin]

---continued---

But, as Jared Israel knows -- and acknowledges later in his article, though others who cite the document ignore this -- the Joint Chiefs didn't call for killing U.S. citizens. They did propose sinking a boatload of Cuban refugees (though we don't know whether the Joint Chiefs would have arranged for a U.S. vessel to fortuitously be on hand to pick up the refugees in the water), but with regard to the shoot down of a plane filled with U.S. college students, the plan was to switch an actual planeload of students with an "unmanned" drone that would be shot down, supposedly by Cuba. Elsewhere, Operation Northwoods proposes blowing up a U.S. ship in Guantanamo Bay in a "Remember the Maine" replay, but explicitly refers to a "non-existent crew." The document also suggests attacks on Cuban refugees in the United States "even to the extent of wounding." So if this document is supposed to show us what U.S. officials are morally capable of, it seems to suggest that they are capable of lying, deceit, conspiring to wage a war of aggression -- but not killing U.S. citizens.

Moreover, as far as we can tell, the plan proposed by the Joint Chiefs was rejected by the U.S. civilian leadership. (Actually, we didn't need this document to tell us that U.S. policymakers were willing to falsify an incident to justify invasion of Cuba. We've known for quite a while that during the Cuban missile crisis Bobby Kennedy proposed that Washington stage a "Remember the Maine" incident as a justification for war.) It should be noted that not all conspiracy theorists have been promoting the Operation Northwoods document. Carol A. Valentine argues that the document is itself a forgery, probably planted by Israeli intelligence, as proven by the fact that it uses the phrase "college students off on a holiday," which, says Valentine, no American would say (http://www.public-action.com/91 1/northwds.html).

Now imagine a committed conspiracy theorist reading the above paragraph. Whichever side they are on about Northwoods, they can go on and on with debate and assertion, piling hypothesis on top of hypothesis, turtles galore -- and what is one to do? When does one say, "Enough! This is just distracting attention from serious priorities"? Very early on, as in our view? Somewhat later? Later still? Never? Each has to decide for themselves.



(14) Why is conspiracy theorizing popular among critics of injustice?

Conspiracy theorizing that highlights individuals is the modus operandi of prosecutors, of course. After all, they must identify proximate causes and human actors to punish. But why does conspiracy theorizing appeal to people concerned to change society? Many possible answers arise.

First, the evidence conspiracy theories reveal can identify actual events needing other explanation. More, describing the detailed entwinements can become addictive. We find one puzzle and then another and another to uncover. The appeal is of the mysterious. It is dramatic, vivid, and human. And we can make steady progress, like in a murder investigation. Finally, the desire for retribution fuels forays into personal detail. It is a journalistic task with clear parameters and obvious satisfaction to be had, unless, of course, one rejects the entire premise, logic, method, and prioritization.

Second, conspiracy theories have manageable implications. They imply that all was well once and that it can be okay again if only the conspirators can be removed. Conspiracy theories explain ills without forcing us to disavow society's underlying institutions. They allow us to admit horrors and to express our indignation and anger or undertake vendettas, but without rejecting the basic norms of society. We discover that a particular government official or corporate lawyer is bad, but the government and law per se remain okay. We urge getting rid of bad apples, but leaving the orchard intact. All this is convenient and seductive. We can reject specific candidates but not government, specific CEOs but not capitalism, specific writers, editors, and even owners of periodicals, but not mainstream media. We can reject vile manipulators, but not basic institutions. And we can continue to appeal to the institutions for recognition, status, or payment.

Third, and least likely among Leftists, conspiracy theory can provide an easy and quick outlet for pent-up passion withheld from targets that seem unassailable or that might strike back. This is conspiracy theory turned into scapegoat theory. Some minority, some enemy, is tarred, and the talons are unleashed. Racism and conspiracies have long gone together, if not universally, certainly frequently.

Evaluating all this, it would be bad enough if conspiracy theorizing just attuned people to search after coteries while ignoring institutions, thereby reducing energies applied to useful ends as in the wasteful misallocation of energies of the many Kennedy assassination theorists of past decades. At least in that case the values at play could be progressive and we could hope, however faintly, that people involved would in time gravitate toward real explanations of more structural and important phenomena. But the sad fact is that the effects of adopting a conspiracy theory orientation can be and often are still worse.

[Justin]

---continued---


(15) How do conspiracy theories lead to harmful political inclinations and allegiances?

1. Conspiracy theories often lead Leftists to establish connections to or tolerate alliances with right-wing crazies. One of the authors of this article was handed a stack of materials by a Leftist conspiracy enthusiast that included print-outs from Public Action, Inc. (http://www.public-action.com/), which, in addition to its 9-11 conspiracy claims, has links to many Holocaust denial sites. This is regrettably typical.

2. Conspiracy theories often lead to the foolish glorification of people who were supposedly not in on the conspiracy, but whom Leftists ought not be glorifying. Thus, John F. Kennedy has become something of a hero to JFK-assassination conspiracy theorists on the (probably false) grounds that he was going to get us out of Vietnam, a claim needed by them to provide rationales for various of their hypotheses, and so asserted no matter how divorced from serious evidence.

3. Conspiracy theories lead us to counterproductive and wrong priorities. There are many pressing issues for U.S. Leftists today -- preventing war in Iraq, restraining Israeli aggression, fighting the assault on civil liberties, exposing the phony U.S.-Russian nuclear arms deal, and so on. Unfortunately too many Leftists have gotten wrapped up in supporting the Democratic-party-led campaign to investigate what Bush knew and when. Just in the past few weeks, how much energy from people well on the Left has gone to the Bush question, with no credible gains, and away from directions where our energies are sorely needed? Leftists have gone from planning teach-ins on the Mideast to planning gatherings to talk about the detailed claims of who knew what when. (In fact, if we were to apply the "who benefits?" principle, we might ask whether conspiracy theorizing itself is a plot by the CIA to distract us all from the struggle against globalization? Imagine debating that conspiracy theory, hour after hour, and then debating about debating about....)

4. Conspiracy theorists cause the Left not to be taken seriously. Much of the public finds conspiracy theories loony. This is true of course, about lots of Left ideas, but (a) most Left ideas are true, unlike a lot of the conspiracy theories, and (b) most Leftists take their Left politics seriously. But on a certain level, many conspiracy theorists give the impression that they are playing games. Do they really believe what they write? If we thought the government was run by out-of-control murderers with immense power who would stop at nothing to get their way, would we be hanging around writing articles? Or would we be underground? Which is the appropriate response if one expects an imminent fascist takeover?

Conspiracy theorist Michael Ruppert reports that his conspiracy web site has been hacked a number of times and he suggests that this is the work of those who want to shut him up. But he promises to make his site ever more hack-proof. Can he really believe that the CIA is attacking his site? If so, is it credible that his technical fix is going to stump the most well-paid and technologically-sophisticated intelligence service in the world that has just wiped out thousands of Americans and is being exposed by Ruppert? Credibility and seriousness are not enhanced by checking the links on Ruppert's site that he specifically recommends as providing "reason and reliable information." In addition to links to right-wing rumor-monger Matt Drudge (Ruppert's "favorite news site on the web"), TWA 800 conspiracy theories, Vincent Foster conspiracy theories, and the like, there is a link to "We the People," a site "dedicated to two of the most pressing issues of our time," CIA complicity in the crack-cocaine epidemic and the murder of Princess Diana in accord with orders from Queen Elizabeth and Bill Clinton. Another Ruppert recommended site is the Conspiracy Theory Research List, which leads us to the Bilderberg conspiracy site which, in a show of even-handedness, presents both sides of the question regarding whether the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is a valid proof of a Zionist conspiracy. Elements of the Left taking Rupert seriously contributes to average folks ignoring not only Rupert, but the Left too.

5. As bad or even worse than the fact that many find conspiracy theories loony, is that all too many people take conspiracy theories seriously. Not only is it a way to rationalize horrible injustices and suffering without calling basic institutions into account, it is part and parcel of thinking that injustice is an inevitable part of the human equation. Some folks are bad, so we get lots of bad outcomes. We can't do anything beyond having a good district attorney and going on about our business. If everything is under the control of immensely powerful and incredibly evil forces, there is no point in fighting injustice. Left-wing conspiracy theorizing, no less than right wing conspiracy theorizing, when it appeals to the public is worse than when it doesn't.

6. Finally, conspiracy theories lead to bizarre judgments of who one's enemies are. We're not talking here about Jared Israel's characterizing Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, and Michael Albert as "accomplices in genocide" (http://www.emperors-clo thes.com/analysis/revenge.htm) because this is not a function of his conspiracy theorizing but of his Milosevic worshipping. But consider some other conspiracy theorists' political judgments. One brands The Progressive, Z Magazine, and The Nation as "supposed leftist media organs" because their writers don't accept the Kennedy-assassination conspiracy theories (http://www.webcom.com/lp ease/media/cockburn.htm). Another charges that "leading progressive/left/liberal thinkers and writers like I.F. Stone, Noam Chomsky and Alexander Cockburn will only criticize the monied and powerful to the extent that they think it is safe for them to do " as demonstrated by the fact that they do not accept JFK conspiracy theories, making them "no different in principle" from the mainstream news media (http://www.r tis.com/reg/bcs/pol/touchstone/february97/worsham.htm). Such confusions don't help the struggle for social justice.

add your comments

Fuck You CIA PIG! Part 1, 2 and 3
by CIA IS A CONSPIRACY • Thursday June 06, 2002 at 08:30 PM

Fuck You CIA PIG! Part 1,...
headinsand200.jpgxbpzwq.jpg, JPG image, 200x101

You are either a CIA spook or a COMPLETE IDIOT!! Are you not aware of the fact that the history of capitalism IS a conspiracy?? The CIA is a conspiracy. The anthrax that CAME FROM A US government lab, IS A FUCKING CONSPIRACY!!

Wake up asshole, or quit the CIA! Your protecting a sinking ship.

add your comments

Show us the Beef
by puzzled • Thursday June 06, 2002 at 11:45 PM

A simple way to stop conspiracy theories is to provide the basic evidence of the official story. This has never been done, I am unable to find photographic evidence of a passenger plane involved in either the Pentagon or the first WTC attacks. Before I will stop investigating "conspiracy theories" I would like to hear some facts about what happened and not a bunch of spin and lies.

9-11 "consipiracy theorists" are simply people asking for evidence that what is claimed happened actually did, given no evidence exists and the smoking guns like the second bin Laden tape look like they were made in grade 8 drama class.

add your comments

Once again
by lalala • Monday June 10, 2002 at 05:20 PM

There seems to be a huge lack of reflexivity these days. Though some "conspiracy theorists" [sometimes AKA non-conformists or counter-culturists] do ignore factual evidence, so do the ignorant masses who accept what they are told by mainstream media and the government.

Thank you for pointing me to some more thorough links regarding the supposed plane that struck the pentagon.

add your comments

Once again
by lalala • Monday June 10, 2002 at 05:20 PM

There seems to be a huge lack of reflexivity these days. Though some "conspiracy theorists" [sometimes AKA non-conformists or counter-culturists] do ignore factual evidence, so do the ignorant masses who accept what they are told by mainstream media and the government.

Thank you for pointing me to some more thorough links regarding the supposed plane that struck the pentagon.

add your comments



---End Article---

Also, notice how that lalala girl posted twice. She's smart enough to figure out what's reeeeally going on in the inner sanctum of the pentagon, but she can't figure out how to fucking post without seriously fucking up.

[bago]

If President George W. Bush and his War Cabinet decide to go warlord-hunting and nation-building in Afghanistan and send 250,000 U.S. troops up the bloody road to Baghdad--while subcontracting Mideast policy out to Ariel Sharon--they will put the United States on the wrong side of tribalism, nationalism, and faith in a vast region of one billion people and end up in the history books alongside Lyndon Johnson, Robert McNamara, and Dean Rusk.


Although the above statement seems like it could have come from one of these paranoid leftist diatribes posted earlier, I'll let you try and guess who wrote it.



Pat Robertson

[Mike S]

Originally posted by DJ Rawkus
I'm confused. Is Mike saying there was no plane 3 or 4..or is he saying that he isn't going to assume where they were heading? I hope for his 'anal health', he says the latter. I had a relative on plane 3 and it certainly DID crash and she DID die on her way back to Hawaii. :( It is a year later and I am still appalled at the lack of news shown on Plane 3. Like it didn't even happen. There's always some blurb about how they were 'heros'..and then we pan back to the main site for more sensationalistic shots and inside accounts.

Bungle was wondering where the air force intercept planes were in regards to flights 3 and 4 that crashed. Thats what I was responding to.
I wasnt going to assume where the interceptors were and get into a converstation with bungle trying to counter her paranoid accusations about why there were no intercept planes near (or so she says) with assumptions.


MS

[Mike S]

Originally posted by Doc Mahem


Your counterargument to Bungle is so bizzarre, I have trouble figuring out what's going through your mind. The best I can think of is "Bungle says military is bad. I post link say miliary is good." While I do not doubt the patriotism and nobility of lower and higher members of the military, why is it so unimaginable that certain members of the military are bad people? I'm sure it's deeply comforting to be able to divide the whole world into two camps of simple black and white, but things just don't work that way. Yes, the actions of a few fighter pilots are inspiring, but what in god's name does that have to do with the five members of the joint cheifs in 1963?

What the fuck are you babbling about doc? Read the post again. At the bottom of it she was starting in on another one her paranoid conspiracies. This time it regarded the whereabouts of fighter interceptors and how come they were not anywhere near the planes that crashed.

Dude put your fucking pipe down and read why dont you.


God damn you are a fucking moron.
MS

[bungle bliss]

Originally posted by Mike S


Bungle was wondering where the air force intercept planes were in regards to flights 3 and 4 that crashed. Thats what I was responding to.
I wasnt going to assume where the interceptors were and get into a converstation with bungle trying to counter her paranoid accusations about why there were no intercept planes near (or so she says) with assumptions.


MS

:rolleyes:

K, let's make a deal. You don't assume you know where they were, and I'll go on knowing where they WEREN'T.

God damn you are a fucking moron.