Is NASA useless?

[Kosmicdog]

What good does space exploration do us? Are there reasons beyond scientific curiosity for studying and seeking out space travel? Will there ever be any economic gains made? Besides Tang and Velcro?

Is NASA a big fat waste of money?

[Justin]

I think so. As far as I understand, the whole point is to bankrupt whatever country you're locked into a space race with. Now that the CCCP is out of the picture, what are we doing? That said, the hubble is fantastic, but I bet 90% of NASA's missions don't need actual people up there.

[Kosmicdog]

It seems to me that we already know the places we can physically reach are inhospitable to humans, and offer little in the way of monetary value. It's not like we are going to mine diamonds on mars. All I've ever seen from the space travel program are pretty pictures from outer space.

[Justin]

I dunno, outerspace in general offers a lot of potential knowledge. Like most physics or astronomy research though, whether it's worth the money is a matter of opinion. On the one hand, who cares about quasars when people are starving. On the other hand, nothing that doesn't involve lots of cool looking equipment, like carrier battlegroups or radioastronomy, gets funded, so why not? At least it's not going towards new trident submarines. The starving will have to wait either way.

[Kosmicdog]

Im sort of playing the devil's advocate here, because space travel fascinates me... But as far as engineering and science breakthroughs (ball point pen) go it doesn't matter where we channel that, well paid intelligent people will always come up with good ideas.. But does space travel really make any sense?

[StarPhox]

I believe that the natural resources on this planet will be exhausted and when that happens we will need natural resources from other planets, as well as alternative energy production methods (such as orbiting solar collectors). The benefits of our continued exploration of space will probably not be seen in this generation or for many generations to come but we still have to continue "growing" in order to eventually achieve the results we need.

As for wasting money on putting humans in space....I think that NASA already prefers unmanned missions. Sending people up is much more more expensive than just sending up an unmanned satellite. Not to mention the fact you have all sorts of chances to fuck up your funding with public relations disasters (like Challenger or Columbia).

[TeknoAXE]

I can think of at least one group of people that greatly benefited from NASA. All those new generation lightweight wheelchairs came from them. Now handicapped people can move around more easily than ever.

AXE

[Disco Jesus]

If memory serves, the space program is a result of the Cold War. We were trying to get into space before the Soviet Union, right? And now it's being scouted for the next planet the human race can rape of its resources, and as a potential place for military operations. Missle launching satellites and such. Or do they already have that? They probably do. Damn those beaurocratic pigs.

[StarPhox]

Earth First!
We'll strip mine the other planets later.

[vox2000]

Nasa didnt invent velcro... that was the swiss. you're thinking of Teflon..

& yeah, it may seem to be a waste now, but who knows in 50 yrs. it may be our only choice

[invis]

i'd argue the option ov having different planets to live on in escape ov this as a nice option especially considering the rate at which all the idiots ov the world are reproducing.....though i think it would be the rich white motherfuckers that would be the only ones really given the choise, less they were mining planets or some other undesireable bs. but yeah we could possibly find other planets where we could grow/raise food and or??? i rather like the idea ov at least SOME ov my money being used for something a little more productive than killing people, inprizoning people and or simply feeding and sending to college families ov fucks that drop laws to try to control what i put into my body, what i do in my bedroom etc.
i think limiting nasa's budget even more would only lead to more fuck ups however.
*snort*

[shenrix]

I think we should consider sending all the ridiculous candy kids into outerspace. . .we would obviously need Nasa still around for that project. . .and also think of all the great drugs that could be manufactured with all of that hi-tech equipment. . .yeah drugs! Now that I've come up with these possibilities. . .I am all for continuing funding to the space program

[Star_Dancer]

I'm hoping that when we discover ways to colonize other worlds it will make the national boundaries on this world seem much less significant. Who cares what "country" you were born on or live on when you have entire planets to consider.

And I haven't laughed so hard at someone since I read that "rich white motherfucka" post. Your an idiot.

[Metaphysics]

I, for one, support the space program. When you think about it it's the only real fronteer of exploration we have left, and if humankind does not continue exploring I believe we will colapse as a society. Whithout a common goal to bring us together we'll spend all of our time bickering with one another. Kinda like Bush and his crowd attacking everyone who looks funny or speaks arabic.

Mavric.

[invis]

And I haven't laughed so hard at someone since I read that "rich white motherfucka" post. Your an idiot.

:rolleyes: hehe so's your mom bitch;)

[invis]

I think we should consider sending all the ridiculous candy kids into outerspace. . .we would obviously need Nasa still around for that project. . .and also think of all the great drugs that could be manufactured with all of that hi-tech equipment. . .yeah drugs! Now that I've come up with these possibilities. . .I am all for continuing funding to the space program

Speaking ov idiots.....this yo dad or something star prancer?

[skloot]

Everyone needs to read the Mars trilogy (Red Mars, Green Mars, Blue Mars) by Kim Stanley Robinson.
Thats all I got to say.

[StarPhox]

Originally posted by Kranman
Everyone needs to read the Mars trilogy (Red Mars, Green Mars, Blue Mars) by Kim Stanley Robinson.
Thats all I got to say.

Maybe if you explained some of what the book details and why it is worth the read we would go check it out...

[vox2000]

What Cost Life?
NASA's O'Keefe Should Resign : by John Stanton
John Stanton is a virginia-based writer specializing in national security matters. He can be reached at cioran123@yahoo.com

Within 24 hours of STS Columbia's demise, the US government established an investigative commission headed by a former US Navy employee, ex-Admiral Harold Gehman, Jr., and seven other grand brains culled from the US Air Force and US Navy. They will be supported by the for-profit United Space Alliance (USA), shorthand for a Lockheed Martin and Boeing partnership, in their investigation. In short, another military-industrial panel to investigate what was billed as a civilian "scientific and research mission." No Richard Feynman's--the deceased Nobel Prize winning physicist who discovered the cause of the 1986 Challenger disaster--need apply here. Conversely, over 365 days passed by before an investigative commission to examine the September 11, 2001 attacks would be convened in January of 2003. Conspiracy? No. It's simple, really. On 911, US civilians and commercial interests bore the brunt of death and destruction. Their interests are secondary to the current Regime. On the other hand, on February 2, 2003, the good old boys and girls of the US military-industrial complex and their paymasters in the Pentagon and NASA were running the show. Seven of their own went down. It's abundantly clear that the Regime and its military-industrial interests supercede those of the American populace. So, it's going to be yet another another cover-your-ass (CYA) investigative operation headed by ex-military types who seem to be finding seats on investigative commissions of all types. Gehman's first order of business will be to control the flow of information to the public. In short, stymie the press corps or what remains of it.
The mighty military-industrial complex lobby has pressured Congress to force many federal organizations like NASA to privatize-outsource its functions. In NASA's case, close to 90 percent of NASA's funding gets turned over to contractors like Boeing, Lockheed Martin and the USA which, on January 31, 2003, received a contract extension worth close to $3 billion. Those billion dollar contractors run the day-to-day operations of NASA's Shuttle program yet they receive little scrutiny other than an occassional NASA Inspector General audit which they quickly ignore. And when tragedies like those of February 2, 2003 happen, it's the federal agency and the taxpayers that have to foot the bill for the shoddy performance of private industry. Fines and prosecutions mean little to Lockheed Martin and Boeing as they view the occassional government spanking as a business cost. And, besides, organizations like NASA and the Pentagon have no where else to turn for their unique products. It's a murky business indeed.
Shady Contractors
According to propaganda on USA's website "... USA has continued to maintain safety and reliability as top priorities while successfully reducing the overall costs of operating the Space Shuttle fleet. Mission objectives - including preparation for flight, on-time launches and safe landings - are consistently met under USA’s management." Yet, as has been widely reported, the General Accounting Office, mid-level NASA engineers and Congressional Oversight panels had chided NASA and Lockheed Martin and Boeing for cutting corners on safety by gutting quality assurance programs, ignoring structural issues associated with aging STS's, and--in a broadside aimed at NASA--incompetent contract oversight by NASA Administrator Sean O'Keefe and his prime contractors.
NASA's contractors have been cited for safety violations and have visited courtrooms more than they want the American public to know. Testifying before the US Congress on March 15, 2001, Roberta Gross, NASA's Inspector General, indicated that "We found that ground workers were using potentially hazardous materials without exercising proper control and safety precautions. Improper use of these materials is hazardous to ground workers and increases the risk of damage to Space Shuttle payloads, including International Space Station hardware and equipment. We recommended that NASA increase surveillance of the Boeing safety office’s compliance with inspection procedures and direct Boeing to analyze its use of materials that do not meet requirements for flammability and electrostatic discharge. Management concurred with our recommendations and has implemented a number of procedures to control the use of these noncompliant materials. However, in an ongoing audit, we are finding similar problems with potentially unsafe materials used by United Space Alliance's shuttle processing operations."
Gross' testimany went on to point out that Boeing subcontractors were criminally prosecuted for everthing from unauthorized aluminum battery alignment guides used by astronauts to replace batteries on the International Space Station. One company made unauthorized welds to repair their manufacturing errors and attempted to hide the welds. In another instance, investigators found that a subcontractor did not properly heat-treat parts, causing them to be weaker than required. The company was fined $1.6 million and the company’s general manager was sentenced to 55 months in prison. She also pointed out that a NASA and DOD contractor had consistently illegally stored and burned hazardous waste on its property. Federal criminal and civil cases are underway, but the company has already paid a $500,000 fine to the California Department of Toxic Substances Control. In another case currently in court, a company shipped hazardous materials from a NASA Center and forged shipping documents to show that the drivers were certified to drive hazardous material cargoes, when, in fact, they were not.
Finally, according to the US Department of Justice, on November 9, 2000, Boeing and USA agreed to pay the US government $825,000 and relinquish rights to $1.2 million in unpaid invoices to settle allegations relating to false claims submitted to the government between 1986 and 1992 under the NASA's Space Shuttle and Space Station Freedom programs.
NASA's Bohemian
Sean O'Keefe is another Bush I holdover having served in that administration as Secretary of the Navy and Defense Comptroller at DIck Cheney's Pentagon. He has ties to Frank Gaffney's Center for Security Policy and in 1994 he participated in a roundtable for that group and argued vociferously for increasing funding for the B-2 bomber, currently priced at $2.2 billion a piece. He was a paid consultant and advisory board member for the manufacturer of the B-2, Northrop Grumman, and also Raytheon. Prior to becoming NASA's administrator, O'Keefe had no background in the sciences involved with space flight. Rather, he was counting beans at the Office of Management and Budget until Bush II nominated him--no doubt at Cheney's insistence--to the head NASA position. O'Keefe's also a member of the manly and very elite San Francisco Bohemian Club which meets now-and-then in the summer months in the Sonoma County Redwoods to discuss, among other things, matters of planetary and national governance. Hank Kissenger, Bush I and Bush II and like-minded folks have attended these bonding activities. According to Peter Phillips, a sociology professor at Sonoma State University, lakeside chats provide Bohemian attendee's with keen insights like these:
"The Bohemian Grove offers daily lectures known as "lakeside chats." The Under-Secretary of the Navy may give an off-the-record speech on military budget issues, or the President of Mexico may address global free trade. Whatever the topic, those present emerge with a sense of insider awareness of high-level policy issues and political situations which are often yet-to-be, or perhaps never-to-be, publicly articulated.
One such chat in 1994, given by a University of California political science professor, warned of the dangers of multi-culturalism, Afro-centrism, and the loss of family boundaries. He declared that 'elites based on merit and skill are important to society. Any elite that fails to define itself will fail to survive... We need boundaries and values set and clear. He went on to conclude that we cannot allow the "unqualified" masses to carry out policy, and elites must set values that can be translated into "standards of authority."'
O'Keefe's stated before the House Science Committee that his number one priority for NASA, was to have it be the "leading agency in the federal government for implementing the President's Management Agenda." That meant outsourcing, cutting costs and reforming the management of NASA. In testimony before the US Senate, O'Keefe went on to say that "...technical excellence at any cost is not an acceptable approach. Managing the program within cost and schedule must be elevated in importance..." That from a proponent of the B-2 bomber which has shattered records for cost overruns and requires astronomically expensive retrofits.
In an endeavor where technical excellence means the difference between life and death, it would seem that any cost is a fair price to pay for the men and women who undertake the most dangerous mission of all--the exploration of space.

Did Columbia's magnificent seven have to perish for the President's Management Agenda?


http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2003/02/1569476.php

[skloot]

Originally posted by StarPhox


Maybe if you explained some of what the book details and why it is worth the read we would go check it out...

Its just a good book :)
The truth is, it doesnt have a whole lot to do with this discussion
The books are about the colonization of mars, which starts about 30 years from now. Its on a very large, epic scale, and is extremely well written.
What I'm loving about them is that it delves into many, many aspects. To terraform or not, the influence of earth, the formation of a society and how that should be done, etc....
It also has a lot of personal details from moment to moment, so it keeps you interested.

Anyway, its the best SciFi I've ever read, IMO.

[Star_Dancer]

Originally posted by invis


Speaking ov idiots.....this yo dad or something star prancer?

ov? yo dad? *snicker* Yo Yo homie.

star prancer? Come on... I wasn't impressed when Balloon Kitten thought it was a good insult, and she had a lot on you. And for the record it wasn't just for your... unique writing style that I said that.

Better luck next time little kid.

[Star_Dancer]

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/space/1745424

I wonder how many teachers are going to be wanting to go up into space after recent events.

[Star_Dancer]

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99993223

One in four of the planetary systems identified to date outside the Solar System are capable of harbouring other Earths, say astrophysicists, a much higher proportion than anyone expected.

With stats like that why the hell should we not try to explore the systems. There's nothing left to explore on this planet except the sea and each other. And frankly I find most people out there to be not worth the effort.

Imagine what new types of cultures we can develop on other planets. What plants we might find that could cure Aids or birth defects like stupidity. Maybe we'll find a planet where I can find a kitten that is well behaved.

In summation, when we are talking about new planets anything is possible. Find just one and we've doubled the potential for our species.

The main problem is engines that can carry us. I say we put our resources into developing Cold Fusion. That way not only can we have a source of power, but with that type of energy it would make this entire oil thing a moot point. Cold Fusion with advanced cryogenics technology and I can be freeze dried and sent to discover Planet Chiz-Arles.

[ChickenFucker]

Originally posted by Metaphysics
When you think about it it's the only real fronteer of exploration we have left


we know more about space than our oceans.

110% support for the space program. more money needs to be put into the program currently. more money needs to be put into the science community period, that is where our future begins.

How did we colonize unexplored areas of our planet? branched out slowly, developing important trade posts at junctions. single person paths widened to fit a carriage through. that path eventually got paved while an offshoot gets widened and a new trail is started at the end.
pathways advanced with the advances in transportation. it used to take months to go from new york to san fransisco, now it takes 5-7 hours. @ the speed of light it would take 26 years to the nearest star, yet essentially @ the speed of light you can arrive at any point in the universe instantaneously. hmmmm.

Builing a Space Station in which we could lauch missions from would be an incredible advancement in space travel. Because of the earths atmospher we have to use insane amounts of fuel to take off. So much that taking off from earth, flying to mars, landing on mars, and taking off from mars would be impossible. a space station built on the Moon (no atmosphere) would require next to no fuel, allowing for an ample amount to be used to land and take off from mars.

Supercolliders- the key to endless amounts of power. France still has their program running. the U.S. program was shut down because it would not produce immediate benefits. This is because the men running our country want short term goals that make their term look good for re-election time.

We are fortunate enough to get our Oakley eyewear coated in Black Iridium. Black Iridium is a compound/element only found in the debris of asteroids that have collided with earth. Black Iridium does not exist on this planet naturally. What other elements and compounds are out there to be discovered? What could these elements/ compounds do for human kind?

Seeming as how the Milky Way and the Andromeda Galaxy will eventually collide in a cataclysmic catastrophe we should damn well start figuring out space travel right now. But hell, the earth will be swallowed by the sun before it turns into a black dwarf much earlier so.........

asteroids and comets? Kuiper Belt and the Oort Cloud. it's impossible to determine all the paths of all the objects.

Supernovas- does anybody know the radius in which it'll destroy everything. think light years and a lot of em'

Our Universe is at least 15-18 Billion Years old.
The first definate primate was 55 million years ago.
The earliest Homonid was a little under 22 million years ago.
Homo Erectus first walked two million years ago
Neandertals/ Late Archaic Homo Sapiens walked 130, 000 years ago.

130, 000 years / 16 billion years = .000008125 (decimal approx. of the existence of homo sapiens to the existence of the universe)

say 16 billion years = 365 days, 8760 hours, or 525,600 minutes

8760 x .000008125 = .071175 hours

.071175 x 60 (minutes) = about 4 minutes 17 seconds or
.000008125 / 525, 600 = 4.27 minutes

if you put the timeline of the universe into 1 year (new years being this very moment), homo sapiens began to exist slightly after 11:55 pm, December 31st. Homo sapiens have been around for no more than 5 minutes of the universes year. in those five minutes we have gone from shaping rocks for hunting to sending probes to the farthest reaches of our solar system.

dinosaurs existed 4 days ago.

there are more stars in our galaxy then there are grains of sand on earth. thats just our galaxy, the possibilities are endless. Ignorant thought of shutting down space exploration is all that is holding us back.

the universe is at least 35 billion light years across, can you imagine whats out there. is there another race at our same point, debating on whether or not take the next step in advancing our race.

as Richard Dreyfus would say : Baby Steps

[adreezy]

Originally posted by invis


Speaking ov idiots.....this yo dad or something star prancer?

Coming from the guy who spells "of" like "ov."

O-F! Come on, repeat it with me, David. O-F.

[bungle bliss]

I thought Columbia's mission had to do with doing medical experiments and not really exploring space? I think space travel is needed. They can observe global changes to the earth from space and such. I don't think exploring the solar system for a planet to escape to is the objective for many shuttle missions. If it were, why haven't we gone back to the moon in umpteen years?

[HexRei]

Originally posted by Kosmicdog
What good does space exploration do us? Are there reasons beyond scientific curiosity for studying and seeking out space travel? Will there ever be any economic gains made? Besides Tang and Velcro?

Is NASA a big fat waste of money?

Why does it have to be about economic gains? Isn't spreading into space enough of a goal? I mean christ, do you want to be locked to this rock for all of time? I sure don't, and I don't want to doom future generations to it, either.

I think that some private (read: commercial) endeavours into space would be a great idea though, if only to give NASA a kick in their slow-moving asses.

[Star_Dancer]

Originally posted by HexRei


Why does it have to be about economic gains? Isn't spreading into space enough of a goal? I mean christ, do you want to be locked to this rock for all of time? I sure don't, and I don't want to doom future generations to it, either.

I think that some private (read: commercial) endeavours into space would be a great idea though, if only to give NASA a kick in their slow-moving asses.

Commercial endeavours really would need to be aout economic gain.

[Kosmicdog]

this is scary..

A National Group Speaks Up

A national environmental consumer organization, Public Interest Research Groups, called for a ban on high flying billboards. Mary Faber, outreach director for the organization's Michigan chapter, said the billboards would further clutter the sky for astronomers and for star gazers. "And from the consumer point of view, it's another example of the misuse of space.. More and more advertisers are resorting to some pretty outrageous tactics to get people to buy their products. This doesn't give people an opportunity to turn it off." The group issued the following statement:

PIRG's Campaign to Stop the Space Billboard

The problem: Imagine strolling along the beach, looking over the horizon at a stunning sunset, only to be shocked by the sight of a huge Pepsi logo hovering in the sky. Unfortunately, this is not just a bad dream. A company called Space Marketing, Inc., in Roswell, GA, is developing a project to launch mile long mylar billboards into space, marring the skies and opening the heavens to advertising. The billboards would have thirty day orbits, be visible during the day, and could advertise a corporate logo that would appear to be about the size of the full moon! These space billboards would destroy any natural view of the sky, interfere with astronomical research, and intrude on outdoor activities. Most ominously, they would open the gateway to advertising in space, a precedent that could lead to a truly Orwellian future of sunsets sponsored by McDonald's and the Big Dipper ladling out a hefty portion of Campbell's soup.

The Solution: The PIRG's are organizing a campaign to stop these billboards from ever being launched. The components of the campaign include: Building public outrage: The public opposition to advertising in space is vociferous and nearly universal. The Atlanta Constitution recently reported that the city of Atlanta was exploring the use of space billboards to advertise for the Olympics. The public response was so overwhelmingly negative that the Mayor scuttled the idea the next day. We plan to continue to build public outrage across the country to dissuade any corporation from advertising with a space billboard. Introduce Legislation: We are speaking with members of Congress about introducing legislation that will make space advertising illegal. [Editor's note: In fact, while typing these space billboard items for the IDA newsletter, I heard on PBS news such concepts might well want to write to your Representative or Senator urging them to strongly support this item of legislation.]

The Campaign: The first step in the campaign is to take our case to the public. We are planning news conferences and news releases around the country. We also plan to picket in appropriate places: at Space Marketing headquarters and in front of the labs that are engineering the project. In addition to the news conferences, we will release letters of opposition to the billboard which threaten an international boycott of any company that advertises with such billboards. These letters will be signed by national environmental, consumer, and astronomy groups.

A Grass Roots Handout Sheet, by Suzanne Elliot

We reproduce here, on the reverse side of this information sheet, (somewhat edited) the text of handout sheet produced by Suzanne Elliot, New York, who also had a letter published 17 May 1993 in the New York Times.

Space Billboards!!

"As you may have heard, there is a plan a foot orbit a satellite towing an illuminated "billboard" that, seen from the Earth, will appear to be as large and as bright as the moon.

Space Marketing Inc. (Roswell, Georgia) has developed this loathsome idea as a way to make the satellite commercially profitable by selling advertising rights to interested corporations. They are now claiming that they never meant to use this space billboard for advertising per se, but for 'environmentally friendly' messages and symbols. The content of the sign is hardly the issue.

This glaring, mammoth billboard in space would be visible for 10 minutes out of each ninety. It is outrageous that backers are claiming it as a boon to science when it will seriously damage, if not destroy, astronomical observation form the planet's surface. But worse still is the destruction of the pristine beauty of humanity's view of the universe, by a handful of people for personal profit. The arrogance of it is breathtaking.

If this billboard is launched into space, how long will it be before its messages become commercial? And how soon will the sky be blighted by a dozen such monstrosities, advertising soda or beaming down political propaganda? (Do you really want to find out what Saddam Hussein thinks would be a good message?) Can anyone seriously believe we can leave the matter to the good taste and good sense of the launchers?

This satellite must be stopped, and stopped in such a way that no one else can launch one. We must first call for legislation in our own country, and then for international treaties banning advertising from space, just as weapons are banned.

http://www.darksky.org/infoshts/is071.html

[djLefty]

Need Another Seven Astronauts

[MrMiyagi]

Originally posted by djLefty
Need Another Seven Astronauts

that just seemed wrong to say, i hope you didnt come up with that...

anyways, i saw an artical about what one of the purposes of this last mission was, let meeh go find it

[StarPhox]

Originally posted by Kosmicdog

This glaring, mammoth billboard in space would be visible for 10 minutes out of each ninety. It is outrageous that backers are claiming it as a boon to science when it will seriously damage, if not destroy, astronomical observation form the planet's surface. But worse still is the destruction of the pristine beauty of humanity's view of the universe, by a handful of people for personal profit. The arrogance of it is breathtaking.


Neato. Will it tell me when CSI:Miami comes on TV?

[invis]

Better luck next time little kid.

golly gee wally! thanx!
o sorry, thank you sir!
:)


Coming from the guy who spells "of" like "ov."

O-F! Come on, repeat it with me, David. O-F.

Yo yo homie! whut uv it? you so uptight you ain't down with the sheezy perkelatin whizbangasup?
PEACE YO!:(

[sothis]

chicken: wonderfully written response. i enjoyed reading it.

[djLefty]

Originally posted by MrMiyagi
that just seemed wrong to say, i hope you didnt come up with that...


no I didn't come up with it someone on an irc channel I frequent coined it...and please don't take it seriously cause I don't.

[HexRei]

Originally posted by Star_Dancer


Commercial endeavours really would need to be aout economic gain.


...so? All of space is going to be about exploration of the unknown? Please, I said NASA should be non-commercial, not everyone.

[foofy]

Originally posted by ChickenFucker

@ the speed of light it would take 26 years to the nearest star, yet essentially @ the speed of light you can arrive at any point in the universe instantaneously. hmmmm.



explain this please.


Supercolliders- the key to endless amounts of power.


explain this too.


We are fortunate enough to get our Oakley eyewear coated in Black Iridium. Black Iridium is a compound/element only found in the debris of asteroids that have collided with earth. Black Iridium does not exist on this planet naturally. What other elements and compounds are out there to be discovered? What could these elements/ compounds do for human kind?


i have no fucking clue what black iridium is. but 'regular' iridium is found when you dissolve platinum (probably by less pricey means as well). sounds more like oakley made up a fancy name for some garbage they produce by the ton. as far as other elements to be discovered, the only ones we're gonna find anymore are gonna be made with supercolliders and are only going to exist for about 10^-10 seconds before they radioactively decay.


Supernovas- does anybody know the radius in which it'll destroy everything. think light years and a lot of em'


they'd have to be under 100 light years away to do any damage.

anyway. please explain the two statements you made at the top. im seriously interested to hear your explanation.

[Star_Dancer]

Originally posted by foofy

i have no fucking clue what black iridium is. but 'regular' iridium is found when you dissolve platinum (probably by less pricey means as well). sounds more like oakley made up a fancy name for some garbage they produce by the ton. as far as other elements to be discovered, the only ones we're gonna find anymore are gonna be made with supercolliders and are only going to exist for about 10^-10 seconds before they radioactively decay.


This idea comes from the asteroid that hit the planet and wiped out the Dinosaurs. The asteroid itself was very rich in the mineral known as iridium. The Iridium settled in the atmosphere to cause a black blanket, and this is why there are huge deposits of "black iridium" in the layers of the earth.

Though I doubt that this is what is coating our sunglasses. From everything I found it was just a name gimmick.

[HexRei]

Originally posted by Star_Dancer


This idea comes from the asteroid that hit the planet and wiped out the Dinosaurs. The asteroid itself was very rich in the mineral known as iridium. The Iridium settled in the atmosphere to cause a black blanket, and this is why there are huge deposits of "black iridium" in the layers of the earth.

Though I doubt that this is what is coating our sunglasses. From everything I found it was just a name gimmick.

me too. i couldnt find a single thing on an element known as "black irididum"
although, maybe it's only known to the elite scientists at Oakley!!!!

[foofy]

Originally posted by HexRei


me too. i couldnt find a single thing on an element known as "black irididum"
although, maybe it's only known to the elite scientists at Oakley!!!!

hah. seriously.

i did a google search of "black iridium" and found about 500 consecutive links to online stores selling oakley glasses.

apparently the super-tech oakley labs have been holding out on the scientific community.

[StarPhox]

Isn't Black Iridium that little worm thingy that crawled up Mulder's nose in the X-Files?

[ChickenFucker]

if you want the exact theory specs then get em yourself, i can pm you the author as soon as i can go back to my books and find it. the theory states that if one is travelling at the speed of light time ceases to exist, thus arriving anywhere in the universe instantaneously. time would elapse in large amounts to anyone who is not travelling at the speed of light. other people say that it would take you 26 years to travel to the nearest star @ the speed of light.

according to my ex-professors, discovery channel, and numerous authors, if we become capable of harnessing the energy created at the moment of collision we could power something like the eastern seaboard for a day. we are not at this point yet and it would probably be years before we get there, yet we cannot get there without a program.

iridium - my mistake, i used oakley as an example. Oakley uses color classifications (red, blue, black, yellow) for the appearance of the metallic substance on their lenses (or they used to 7-8 years ago). Iridium is only found on earth in its state due to asteroid collisions. iridium is used to detect massive craters that have decayed throughout earths history. An asteroid upon impact will deposit iridium among the crater walls. Geologists use iridium as a means of detecting ancient craters that have decayed over time, much like the yucatan penninsula crater (the one that killed the dinosaurs). If you look up an iridium map of the yucatan you can clearly distinguish the iridium deposits as a circle with the yucatan mountains/large hills as part of the only remaining crater. I'm sorry that my elite science eludes you, much of the information i have received was from my Professor Jim Roisterolla (carl sagans assistant when he was @ NASA), Art Goss, Pete town, a little discovery channel, stephen hawking and that famous guy that teaches at the UW (can't remember his name for the life of me but his seminars are amazing).

[TeknoAXE]

Originally posted by MrMiyagi


that just seemed wrong to say, i hope you didnt come up with that...

anyways, i saw an artical about what one of the purposes of this last mission was, let meeh go find it

That joke's been around for ages :P.

AXE

[StarPhox]

Originally posted by -.DisTorTioN.-


That joke's been around for ages :P.

AXE

Since the last major space tragedy?

It's great how bad taste never goes out of style.

[ZupanGOD]

Originally posted by Doc Mahem
I think so. As far as I understand, the whole point is to bankrupt whatever country you're locked into a space race with. Now that the CCCP is out of the picture, what are we doing? That said, the hubble is fantastic, but I bet 90% of NASA's missions don't need actual people up there.

I agree, IMHO I think the Nasa shuttle program has pretty much turned bureaucratic. We have the technology and the know how to fund A.I. shit and get this intergrated with un-manned spacecraft to explorer. Humans need oxygen, food, sleep, etc.. machines do not. I mean if we can develope a UAV and fly this un-manned drone from hundreds of miles away find a Al-Queda terrorist and fire off a Hellfire-C laser-guided missile hitting it's target I think we could do it for space exploration and cheaper. Nasa needs to start looking towards the future, and push some boundries, I honestly cannot think of anything revoulutionary that has happend recently from the space program for the life of me.

-Jason

[foofy]

Originally posted by ChickenFucker
[B]if you want the exact theory specs then get em yourself, i can pm you the author as soon as i can go back to my books and find it. the theory states that if one is travelling at the speed of light time ceases to exist, thus arriving anywhere in the universe instantaneously. time would elapse in large amounts to anyone who is not travelling at the speed of light. other people say that it would take you 26 years to travel to the nearest star @ the speed of light.


hm. interesting. however, wouldnt accellerating anything with any mass to the speed of light take infinite energy since as they get closer to the speed of light their mass increases?

however. perhaps someday it would be possible to get close enough to the speed of light that the relative time elapsed (as experienced by the person traveling near the speed of light) wouldnt be a big deal?

i dont want to do math and figure it out. but i guess its a possibility. still sounds far fetched to me though.


according to my ex-professors, discovery channel, and numerous authors, if we become capable of harnessing the energy created at the moment of collision we could power something like the eastern seaboard for a day. we are not at this point yet and it would probably be years before we get there, yet we cannot get there without a program.


i cant claim to be familiar with that. but if it really creates that much energy where does it all go once they collide? i just have this image of enough energy being produced to power the easter seaboard and the entire supercollider blowing up.

any link or article you could reference me to would be great. im interested.

[HexRei]

Originally posted by ChickenFucker
[B]if you want the exact theory specs then get em yourself, i can pm you the author as soon as i can go back to my books and find it. the theory states that if one is travelling at the speed of light time ceases to exist, thus arriving anywhere in the universe instantaneously. time would elapse in large amounts to anyone who is not travelling at the speed of light. other people say that it would take you 26 years to travel to the nearest star @ the speed of light.


Theories are just that. Theories. Out of curiosity, can you explain why light itself clearly does not move instantaneously, but we, if accellerated to the speed of light, would?
Not saying it's impossible, but I know a bit about theoretical particle physics and I'm not familiar with this concept.

[Justin]

It's a sticky situation. Nothing with mass can acheive the speed of light (though light does actually have a "relativistic mass" Sort of mass that doesn't have any real weight, but does give light momentum). Anyway, in special relativity, you can take the perspective of anything but a particle traveling the speed of light, because the equations go to infinities there. Basically, the model doesn't explain what light "experiences." However, since light can't experience anything, and we can never acheive the speed of light, it's not really a paradox. Imagining what time does for someone at the speed of light is just something that can't happen, so no answers are "right." Like wondering about whether Godzilla could take on a Zentradi attack squad, it may be fun to think about, but the answers you derive or imagine have no real meaning at all.

[foofy]

Originally posted by HexRei


Theories are just that. Theories. Out of curiosity, can you explain why light itself clearly does not move instantaneously, but we, if accellerated to the speed of light, would?
Not saying it's impossible, but I know a bit about theoretical particle physics and I'm not familiar with this concept.

its not that light or we would move instantaneously, but that we would FEEL as if we had moved instantaneously because time would cease to be felt or experienced by us when we were moving at that speed.

i dont know if i buy that though. sounds like a lot of wild conjecture to me. but who knows right?

Doc:

true. we could never get to the speed of light as we understand it now. but its theoretically possible to get to 99.99% speed of light i guess. or even 50% speed of light. so maybe its worth thinking about, figuring out what time would "feel" like at those speeds?

kinda interesting thought anyway.

[TeknoAXE]

I'm working on a song dedicated to Columbia.

http://artists.iuma.com/site-bin/mp3gen/66334/IUMA/Bands/TeknoAXE/audio/TeknoAXE_-_Godspeed.mp3

It has no lyrics yet, but I'll probably come up with that during the weekend.

AXE

[ZupanGOD]

Appearently the spray on insulation that is put on the external fuel tank is "known" to flake off. The original spray on insulation was CFC based and the EPA mandated that it be changed to make it "green". My question is why was this mandated if there was no real environmental impact statement to support the change and how it effects safety of the shuttle? It looks like Nasa was making some of those tests on this reformulated spray on insulation but of course after the fact of using them not before. Here's a press release from Nasa from google.

http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache:0kZw5k1dQsgC:www.dfrc.nasa.gov/PAO/PressReleases/1999/99-1.html+space+shuttle+foam&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

And appearently this flaking has been noticed in previous shuttle launches reported by The NY Times. (may require reg)

http://nytimes.com/2003/02/04/national/04WRON.html

If it's found out that the falling insulation from the external fuel tank had caused some problems, did going green have some effect here? I dunno discuss amongst yourselfs.

-Jason

[TeknoAXE]

^^^ I don't know about that, but here's some interesting data reguarding the flight computer and its actions during reentry.


"It just does not make sense to us that a piece of debris would be the root cause for the loss of Columbia and its crew," said Dittemore. "There's got to be another reason."

In one of several factors being examined, investigators have noted that during Columbia's descent, its automatic control system struggled to maintain the craft at the precise angle required for a safe return to Earth.

The autopilot caused the craft to rapidly move its control surfaces — devices like flaps and rudders — and eventually fired small rockets in a vain attempt to keep Columbia in proper alignment.

Dittemore said there was something on the left wing — "what, we don't know" — that caused it to catch the wind and drag the craft toward the left.

The autopilot added "more and more flight control muscle" in an attempt to keep Columbia pointed straight, he said, but just before the last signals from the spacecraft reached Earth, it was clear "we were beginning to lose the battle."

He suggested the drag may have been the result of a rough surface, missing tiles or something wrong with the wing.

Dittemore said engineers are also exploring the possibility that increases in temperature detected on Columbia's left side may have somehow caused the loss of control and breakup of the shuttle.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,77701,00.html

AXE

[FatSetH]

Originally posted by Metaphysics
I, for one, support the space program. When you think about it it's the only real fronteer of exploration we have left, and if humankind does not continue exploring I believe we will colapse as a society. Whithout a common goal to bring us together we'll spend all of our time bickering with one another. Kinda like Bush and his crowd attacking everyone who looks funny or speaks arabic.

Mavric.
Collectively, Not statistically, We know Less about our own oceans then we do about outer-space, Perhaps we could research the Small And "insignificant" creatures that have been found on our seabeds where no light is available for photosynthesis and yet we see life Of all kinds.
(Sorry I tried to convert the PDF to HTML to be nice guy and end up looking like a dookus)
Who nows what we got under there, Its kinda like a BIG HUGE COUCH , and you know what kind of bad ass stuff you find in your couch.

[Sheepdog]

The fact is, we're destroying this planet. Agent Smith of The Matrix was correct, the human race is a virus. We will deplete this planet of every natural resource it's got. If we don't explore space to find another planet to suck dry, we're going to die. The planet has supplied us with everything we need to get off this tiny little rock, and spread our infectious genes across the galaxy. So yeah, space exploration is important.

[HexRei]

Originally posted by foofy


its not that light or we would move instantaneously, but that we would FEEL as if we had moved instantaneously because time would cease to be felt or experienced by us when we were moving at that speed.

i dont know if i buy that though. sounds like a lot of wild conjecture to me. but who knows right?

Doc:

true. we could never get to the speed of light as we understand it now. but its theoretically possible to get to 99.99% speed of light i guess. or even 50% speed of light. so maybe its worth thinking about, figuring out what time would "feel" like at those speeds?

kinda interesting thought anyway.

ah yes. I'm familiar with this, it's part of relativity. But the "slowdown of time" effect should, in theory, only apply to the person actually going at the speed of light. to the rest of the universe, the trip would seem to take the full X amount of time, and although the passenger would have not aged, everyone else should have aged X amount of time.

now that i read back, i see chickenfucker even said that, i missed it somehow.

[foofy]

Originally posted by Sheepdog
The fact is, we're destroying this planet. Agent Smith of The Matrix was correct, the human race is a virus. We will deplete this planet of every natural resource it's got. If we don't explore space to find another planet to suck dry, we're going to die. The planet has supplied us with everything we need to get off this tiny little rock, and spread our infectious genes across the galaxy. So yeah, space exploration is important.

anyone who bases their political views off of the matrix scares me.

[186k\sec]

mountain climbing is useless.