Burning of the US Flag!!!!!!!

[E ternalsAngel]

I frown on the fact people are burning the us flag, its like pissing on all the solders graves that have fought for our countrys freedom!
frowning on the people who have lost their lives in the process.
They say that they support our troops but not bush!... burning the FLAG is not showing support to out troops, its lower there esteem and thats when they start to get killed because there work is getting sloppy.
its showing them not supporting our country.

what do you guys think?

- angelina

[nouseforaname]

let me catch anyone burning a flag

[frggystyl]

...That people disrespect the very symbol that entitles them to that freedom of speech.

[Kosmicdog]

Originally posted by frggystyl
...That people disrespect the very symbol that entitles them to that freedom of speech.

I think it's sad that some idiots out there don't think burning the flag IS an acceptable excersize of free speech.

[Truth]

Originally posted by frggystyl
...That people disrespect the very symbol that entitles them to that freedom of speech.

I think it's sad that some people don't recognize the flag as little more than a corporate logo.

[frggystyl]

Originally posted by Truth


I think it's sad that some people don't recognize the flag as little more than a corporate logo.

perhaps now... but when I see it, I think of what it *used* to stand for.

I think it's sad that some idiots out there don't think burning the flag IS an acceptable excersize of free speech.

hmmm... so it's okay for you to express your view... but when I do... I'm an idiot??? Okay.

[E ternalsAngel]

nouseforaname....

in your profile it says your in iraq (no joke)

what do you think about what is goin on?
and how is it effecting you there?

why are you living there?

[sentriK]

Originally posted by E ternalsAngel
nouseforaname....

in your profile it says your in iraq (no joke)

what do you think about what is goin on?
and how is it effecting you there?

why are you living there?

I have a feeling he is in the military.

I don't support burning of the flag, but everyone should know that free speech includes burning the flag if you so choose. Is there a law against it? If not, the flag burninates.

[Carley]

^^He's in the airforce ;) See his thread "I think I'm the first..."



I think it's sad that some people don't recognize the flag as little more than a corporate logo.

Whose fault is that? & how in the hell does burning a flag change what you don't like about the world?

I can totally appreciate freedom of speech, I can totally appreciate views that are different than mine (and peoples right to express them!!), but I cannot appreciate thoughtless acts of destruction in the name of a "rebellion" that doesn't seem terribly well thought out to begin with. I don't understand why people who are upset about "the way things are" don't get out there and do something besides ditch school to make puppets and dance in the streets. Shouldn't SCHOOL be the PRIORITY for people who want a say in shaping things?

This is not the 60's, and this is not Vietnam. This is not England, and has a Blackbloc really ever accomplished anything (aside from strike fear in the hearts of suburban mothers of hottopic feinds & get a lot of people arrested?)?

If you want to change something, then why not figure out a way to CHANGE it??? Or at least contribute to humanitarian efforts instead of spending money on decoupage.

I'm not trying to give anyone a hard time for protesting, but I am sick and tired of idiots who can't keep themselves from being idiots.

THINK.

[DJ Rawkus]

I'm usually inclined to contest the ideas expressed by Carley and Frggy in this thread, but yesterday I saw something that embarrased even me: wannabe's donning face masks burning a flag in a rally. I felt like telling them the time for symbolic protest is over; it is time for direct action. All they were accomplishing was environmental damage and the chuckles from a few passerby as they sped around the flag in their cars. It was truly a sad day in history for me and i felt ashamed to wear black in solidarity with my so-called brothers and sisters. We the people have lost our sense of vigilance. Out of desperation and fear, we look to others to start a campaign against what we consider an atrocity. This sickening consumer/provider relationship that engrains each of us has now soiled our protests. WE have mindlessly been led astray thinking that extravagant puppetry and well-decorated signs will stop the bourgeois from forwarding their economic interests wherever their whims so desire. We have become cliched in our modes of demonstrating our rebellion. This is CLASS war, you young stupid anarcho-fools. This is the time to unite and practice what you preach. It is time to read something other than Zerzan and Guevara. And for Marx's sake.. quit burning shit in the streets.

*thumbs up to frggy for starting this thread. I needed to vent. :)

[frggystyl]

Originally posted by DJ Rawkus
*thumbs up to frggy for starting this thread. I needed to vent. :)

I'd say thanks, but it wasn't me that started it... it was E ternalsAngel

[ZupanGOD]

[burns Che Guevara Flag]

[Carley]

Originally posted by DJ Rawkus
I'm usually inclined to contest the ideas expressed by Carley and Frggy in this thread, but yesterday I saw something that embarrased even me: wannabe's donning face masks burning a flag in a rally.

YES. I can't STAND this crap that's boiling over everything "in the name of." It makes me *angry*!

*for more anti-full-of-shit-"protesters"-venting-action see http://www.nwtekno.org/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51918 *

[nouseforaname]

Originally posted by E ternalsAngel
nouseforaname....

in your profile it says your in iraq (no joke)

what do you think about what is goin on?
and how is it effecting you there?

why are you living there?


Im in the 173rd Airborne Brigade stationed in Italy. I was very lucky and was able to get attached to Special Forces to take pictures of POW'S. The only problem is we have been stuck in a building for the last week waiting for the 173rd Airborne Brigade to conduct an airborne assault on a neighboring town. So I have a lot of free time and SF are nice enough to allow me access to the Internet. I’m all for removal of President Saddam Hussein. War is hell. If we can avoid it we should, but sometimes we cant avoid it. The only thing that pisses me off is all the protesters back home and how people say it’s patriotic to protest. They’re protesting a war, which in the end will save their lives. It saddens me to see these people not standing by their country. But this war has already affected me before it even started. Before I left I was getting letters everyday from Vietnam Veterans thanking me for what im doing. There are some people out there who do care about America and I’m proud to be protecting their freedom. All I have to say to those who are out protesting this war, your welcome for your freedom.

[Truth]

Originally posted by Carley
^^He's in the airforce ;) See his thread "I think I'm the first..."




Whose fault is that? & how in the hell does burning a flag change what you don't like about the world?

I can totally appreciate freedom of speech, I can totally appreciate views that are different than mine (and peoples right to express them!!), but I cannot appreciate thoughtless acts of destruction in the name of a "rebellion" that doesn't seem terribly well thought out to begin with. I don't understand why people who are upset about "the way things are" don't get out there and do something besides ditch school to make puppets and dance in the streets. Shouldn't SCHOOL be the PRIORITY for people who want a say in shaping things?

This is not the 60's, and this is not Vietnam. This is not England, and has a Blackbloc really ever accomplished anything (aside from strike fear in the hearts of suburban mothers of hottopic feinds & get a lot of people arrested?)?

If you want to change something, then why not figure out a way to CHANGE it??? Or at least contribute to humanitarian efforts instead of spending money on decoupage.

I'm not trying to give anyone a hard time for protesting, but I am sick and tired of idiots who can't keep themselves from being idiots.

THINK.

hmmm ... ok. What does any of that have to do with my statement though??

[kristinachilds]

Originally posted by Carley
I can totally appreciate freedom of speech, I can totally appreciate views that are different than mine (and peoples right to express them!!), but I cannot appreciate thoughtless acts of destruction in the name of a "rebellion" that doesn't seem terribly well thought out to begin with.carley, you took the words right out of my mouth.

burning of the flag is a ubiquitous sign of hatred, and while i understand why other countries' people do it in anti-american rallies (even though it saddens me,) to be an american and burn our flag is childish and counter-productive - not to mention idle, thoughtless, destructive, and offensive.

if one feels so much hate toward one's country to burn the flag, why a) leave the country or better yet b) get involved in changing what makes you hate? most of the time (that i see) americans burning our own flag is out of sheer moronic rebellion, not valid, thought out protest with a purpose.

[Tecknowledgy]

Originally posted by Truth


I think it's sad that some people don't recognize the flag as little more than a corporate logo.

WERD

If someone is to burn a flag, what is anyone going to do about it? React with violence? Wow, you'll really be changing the way people think then...not.

[Carley]

Originally posted by Truth


hmmm ... ok. What does any of that have to do with my statement though??

Hmm.. I dunno! What does your statement have to do with anything? :)


If I burn a flag, what is anyone going to do about it? React with violence? Wow, you'd really be forcing your beliefs on me then.

No. I'll sit here trying to figure out what you think you're accomplishing by doing it. Becuase I still haven't heard anyone explain! So please do!

Everything has it's place, including flag burning.

Sure! But I don't see the place spoiled American kids with insta-masks burning flags in America has right now. Care to explain? You know I'm not one to fly off the handle. I'd really appreciate someone (anyone?) explaining their rational. :)

[Tecknowledgy]

http://www.flagburning.org/

[Truth]

Originally posted by Carley


Hmm.. I dunno! What does your statement have to do with anything? :)



Well, if I must spell it out for you:

First there was this comment:
Originally posted by frggystyl
I think it's sad ...That people disrespect the very symbol that entitles them to that freedom of speech.

Then this one:
Originally posted by Kosmicdog
I think it's sad that some idiots out there don't think burning the flag IS an acceptable excersize of free speech.

Notice a trend here??

Then my statement:
Originally posted by Truth
I think it's sad that some people don't recognize the flag as little more than a corporate logo.

I was keeping the ball rolling so to speak.

Typically a quote will be followed by something relavent to said quote. You on the other hand quoted me and then began to ramble on about something completely unrelated. I guess I was just confused at your apparent randomness. But I guess if you "dunno" what the correlation was then I won't even try to speculate.

[Kosmicdog]

Originally posted by Carley

Whose fault is that? & how in the hell does burning a flag change what you don't like about the world?

I would never want to live in a country where I wasn't allowed to burn the flag, even if personally I feel it's pointless.


This is not the 60's, and this is not Vietnam.

No, this is much bigger than Vietnam. ALOT more people are protesting this war. I wish people would stop comparing now to the 60's/70's. Vietnam just happened to be the first time in American history that a large number of citizens were actively against American military action.

[Carley]

Originally posted by Truth

<blahblahblah>.

Excuse me? Go burn some flags & reiterate some propoganda fuckwad, you aren't worth my time ;)

[Truth]

Originally posted by Carley


Excuse me? Go burn some flags & reiterate some propoganda fuckwad, you aren't worth my time ;)

That's too bad because I was looking forward to countless intelligent conversations with you.

[Carley]

Originally posted by Kosmicdog


I would never want to live in a country where I wasn't allowed to burn the flag, even if personally I feel it's pointless.

Neither would I! As I said Sondr,

I can totally appreciate freedom of speech, I can totally appreciate views that are different than mine (and peoples right to express them!!), but I cannot appreciate thoughtless acts of destruction in the name of a "rebellion" that doesn't seem terribly well thought out to begin with. I don't understand why people who are upset about "the way things are" don't get out there and do something besides ditch school to make puppets and dance in the streets.

I also agree that flag burning has it's place. I just don't see how it fits right now ;)


No, this is much bigger than Vietnam. ALOT more people are protesting this war. I wish people would stop comparing now to the 60's. Vietnam just happened to be the first time in American history that a large number of people were actively against American military action. [/B]

I wasn't comparing this to the 60's... in fact, I said this WASN'T the 60's. But thanks.

[Carley]

Originally posted by Truth


Homepage: http://www.fromthewilderness.com



...ahk, you're done kid.

<click>

[Truth]

Originally posted by Carley




...ahk, you're done kid.

<click>

So when do I REALLY become not worth your time??

[Carley]

Originally posted by Truth
This person is on your Ignore List.



Oh! I loooove the clicky!

*wiggles*

[Truth]

* sheds a little tear *

Just when it was getting fun too ...

[Carley]

http://graphics.ctyme.com/ashcroft/ashcroft3.gif

LOL!!! :D:D:D

From http://www.flagburning.org/ (Thank you Eli ;)):

Our forefathers did not fight and die to preserve the flag, but rather they fought and died to protect our right to burn it, just as our founding fathers did to the British flag. The burning of the flag is an act that asserts the right of the people over the government. The denial of the right to burn the flag is the assertion of the government to rule the people. America is ruled by the people, not the government, and it is in fact our patriotic duty, at this juncture to assert that duty.



Ok, first off I understand & defend the *right* to do it.. that was never my question. But are you really asserting the right of people over government? OR are you really burning stuff in the street & getting yourself arrested? Because in reality, I see the latter happening. And it sucks.

From http://www.flagburning.org/ (Thank you Eli ;)):

Flag burning just got easier. Rather than spend good money and buy a cloth flag to burn, just click on the image at the top of this page which links you to a larger version. Then save the file and print it out (landscape mode) to your color printer. Then all you have to do is burn the paper.

If you are going to a political protest, you can print out 20, 50, or 100 copies. Pass them around. Whenever to see someone from the press with a camera, put on a show. Pull one out, light it up, and make a statement. Then you have plenty more to burn for the next person with a camera.


Yikes. I hope you're using recycled paper :(

Truth said: This person is on your Ignore List. To view this post, click here.

Heehee! It makes me laugh! Because I am so easily amused!! Durdurdur!!

[Kosmicdog]

Originally posted by Truth
* sheds a little tear *

Just when it was getting fun too ...

It wasn't getting fun, it was getting stupid.

"oh here's a great contribution to political discourse! A list of spooky conspiracy theory books for sale!"

[kristinachilds]

"Our forefathers did not fight and die to preserve the flag, but rather they fought and died to protect our right to burn it, just as our founding fathers did to the British flag."

i think this argument is weak. for one, the example of our founding fathers burning the british flag was different. in burning their OLD flag, they were asserting their new citizenship. i seriously doubt our founding fathers would have burned the american flag.

secondly, just becuase we have the right to do so doesn't mean we should. i have the right to tattoo my face with neon pink polka dots, but that doesn't mean i should.

i wouldn't want to live in a country where i wasn't allowed to burn the flag, either. but we're not talking about being able to burn the flag here. we're talking about the act of actually doing it.

[kristinachilds]

ack, carley beat me to it.

[Kore (P.I.)]

this thread reminds of after Sept. 11th when those kids in Afghanistan were burning American flags. Thats all these flag-burners are, is KIDS, acting like CHILDREN without enough knowledge to act directly or have an educated opinion.

Why dont we get some Iraqi flags and burn them downtown?

[E ternalsAngel]

Originally posted by Kore (P.I.)
this thread reminds of after Sept. 11th when those kids in Afghanistan were burning American flags. Thats all these flag-burners are, is KIDS, acting like CHILDREN without enough knowledge to act directly or have an educated opinion.

Why dont we get some Iraqi flags and burn them downtown?




EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

:mad:

[Tecknowledgy]

Originally posted by Carley

Ok, first off I understand & defend the *right* to do it.. that was never my question. But are you really asserting the right of people over government? OR are you really burning stuff in the street & getting yourself arrested? Because in reality, I see the latter happening. And it sucks.


All you asked for was an explanation...I gave you one.

If you wanted an explanation that you liked or that suited you, I could have just told you everything you wanted to hear and blown smoke up your ass all day, but what's the point of that?

[ZupanGOD]

Click here (http://www.badpork.com/images/American protestors wave Iraq Flag.jpg)

[Cedwyn]

Shouldn't SCHOOL be the PRIORITY for people who want a say in shaping things?

nah...direct life experience beats institutionalized learning any day, imho.

in burning their OLD flag, they were asserting their new citizenship. i seriously doubt our founding fathers would have burned the american flag.

a) we didn't wait until after the revolutionairy war to burn the british flag

b) given that they *did* burn the british flag, i don't think they'd be against the general concept of flag burning. they used the technique to make their point in one instance; i really don't see why they would abandon the principle over a different flag. dissent is dissent.

[DJ Rawkus]

Originally posted by Kore (P.I.)
this thread reminds of after Sept. 11th when those kids in Afghanistan were burning American flags. Thats all these flag-burners are, is KIDS, acting like CHILDREN without enough knowledge to act directly or have an educated opinion.

Why dont we get some Iraqi flags and burn them downtown? Because, unlike what Bush and his minions say, Iraq is not oprresing us and is not the threat he claims them to be. Go right ahead and burn Iraqi flags but you won't be accomplishing much more than people who burn the American flag at a time like this.

[DJ Rawkus]

Originally posted by ZupanGOD


Click here (http://www.badpork.com/images/American protestors wave Iraq Flag.jpg) Sure. ANYTHING that passes for popular opinion flys in the conservative book of rules!! While we're at it, let's make it illegal to fly french flags too! Of course, it's a whole different matter if you don't think Iraq or France is the enemy. :D

[DJ Rawkus]

Originally posted by Cedwyn


nah...direct life experience beats institutionalized learning any day, imho.



a) we didn't wait until after the revolutionairy war to burn the british flag

b) given that they *did* burn the british flag, i don't think they'd be against the general concept of flag burning. they used the technique to make their point in one instance; i really don't see why they would abandon the principle over a different flag. dissent is dissent. Good reply, but I think most of us are forgetting that the military burns old flags out of respect ALL THE TIME! Cremation of the flag by the public is utilized for different reasons ranging from honor in death (what they consider to be a dead country i.e. America as they want it to be exists no longer) to raging hatred (burning a flag in symbolic non-violent protest rather than harming other people).

This form of protest I don't have any issues with; it is the idea that somehow it will change the events happening at this particular moment. In fact, I will be attending the North American Anarchist Book Fair in SF next week (and a philisophy conference paid for by school! YAY!) and I'm sure there will be plenty of protests happening, but if any flag burning occurs where I'm at, I'll hafta walk away. I don't want to be a part of non-progressive actions. The gov't has stepped up their forces and tactics, so must we. Flag burning is old and tired and I refuse to be a mold in order to show my solidarity. Validation of any means neccessary? Nope. Only if it's non-violent and meets the States' repression factor equivocally. Anything less is a joke and must be determined for extinction or at least..temporary slumber.

[ZupanGOD]

Originally posted by DJ Rawkus
Because, unlike what Bush and his minions say, Iraq is not oprresing us and is not the threat he claims them to be.

Wrong!

[ZupanGOD]

Originally posted by DJ Rawkus
Sure. ANYTHING that passes for popular opinion flys in the conservative book of rules!! While we're at it, let's make it illegal to fly french flags too! Of course, it's a whole different matter if you don't think Iraq or France is the enemy. :D

What are you talking about?

[Kosmicdog]

Originally posted by Kore (P.I.)


Why dont we get some Iraqi flags and burn them downtown?

why would we do that?! I thought we love the Iraqi people! Isn't that why we are liberating them?

HAHA

[ZupanGOD]

Originally posted by DJ Rawkus
This form of protest I don't have any issues with; it is the idea that somehow it will change the events happening at this particular moment. In fact, I will be attending the North American Anarchist Book Fair in SF next week (and a philisophy conference paid for by school! YAY!) and I'm sure there will be plenty of protests happening, but if any flag burning occurs where I'm at, I'll hafta walk away. I don't want to be a part of non-progressive actions. The gov't has stepped up their forces and tactics, so must we. Flag burning is old and tired and I refuse to be a mold in order to show my solidarity. Validation of any means neccessary? Nope. Only if it's non-violent and meets the States' repression factor equivocally. Anything less is a joke and must be determined for extinction or at least..temporary slumber.

Your right! Burning the flag by these groups is hardly a protest any longer when you think about it, it's just a method by these radicals to show solidarity among each other with in these fringe groups who's radical ideology removes their ability to use a logical thinking process in the first place. I mean come on, these radicals already hate America to begin with so burning a flag, is, well, you know, expected.

-Jason

[Mirko]

Originally posted by ZupanGOD


Your right! Burning the flag by these groups is hardly a protest any longer when you think about it, it's just a method by these radicals to show solidarity among each other with in these fringe groups who's radical ideology removes their ability to use a logical thinking process in the first place. I mean come on, these radicals already hate America to begin with so burning a flag, is, well, you know, expected.

-Jason

Yeah you're sorta right.

If you're in favor of free speech, you're in favor of speech for PRECISELY those views you disagree with.

I think people burn flags for lots of reasons, maybe principally to show their disagreement with their government, or their government's policies. In other words, you can love your country but dislike your government.

In my view flag burning is distasteful, and probably not a very smart tactic because people may get immediately angered and won't bother to think about why someone would want to burn a flag. I support the right to burn a flag, I'm just not sure it's very effective.

[ZupanGOD]

Originally posted by Mirko


Yeah you're sorta right.

If you're in favor of free speech, you're in favor of speech for PRECISELY those views you disagree with.

I think people burn flags for lots of reasons, maybe principally to show their disagreement with their government, or their government's policies. In other words, you can love your country but dislike your government.

In my view flag burning is distasteful, and probably not a very smart tactic because people may get immediately angered and won't bother to think about why someone would want to burn a flag. I support the right to burn a flag, I'm just not sure it's very effective.

Yeah I mean these radical groups already hate America, buring a flag doesn't shock me or many other people other than to leave us with the opinion that "ohh there go those radicals again". Now it would be effective however if it was a group of people who were highly respected Americans who have been very supportive of American policies in the past and then this policy in Iraq got them so concerned, and they were against it to the point to protest, and then they started flag burning, that would get more attention IMO than a bunch of radicals who burn the flag when they hate America in the first place.

[Kosmicdog]

Originally posted by Cedwyn


nah...direct life experience beats institutionalized learning any day, imho.



I used to feel this way as well, until I realized no one wants to listen to a broke ass hippy.

I can create more positive change from the inside than I can do uselessly shouting about it from the outside.

[Cedwyn]

that's what i meant, though...that direct life experience is more valuable to effecting change than school learning. you learn more of what's what and exactly what *does* need to be changed.

[Kosmicdog]

During the protest the other day there was this big loud idiot walking along near Damon and I with an upside down flag on a staff, dragging it along the ground obviously looking for trouble and or confrontation. Once we crossed the burnside bridge, he finally got it. Some guy came running out and attacked him, trying to take away the flag. It turned into a big brawl, with a bunch of people standing around yelling "PEACE!". It was stupid, and it just made the rest of us look like idiots. I'm sure some of these people "protesting" are just looking for an excuse to go mindlessly fucking shit up in an environment where they are unlikely to face any sort of trouble.

thanks alot assclowns.

[Virile_Junglist]

Fuck all you morons with issues of burning the flug, I'll burn a flag in your faces. It's a statement that we don't like the CURRENT American government. We're all being raped by sour politics and corruption. A government by the people, of the people right? So why when we speak out are we being pepper sprayed? So much for the people...

Burning a flag is not pissing on the hundreds of thousands of people that died, it's standing up for that war without cause shouldn't be happening. Ever think those soldiers who died for America would support even MOREre people dieing? For what cause? What about the innocent people having their water supplies bombed (in a desert nation)? What about all those soldiers who died in vietnam, fighting for no purpose, would they support more dieing for no purpose other than sour politics?

Didn't think so. I'll torch a flag any day in respect to those who died for THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

[MissAnneThropik]

If you go and buy a flag, and decide to burn it it shouldn't be anyone's business but your own.
Now if you go and burn a flag that doesn't belong to you, you should either a) make sure you have permission, or b) are prepared to replace the flag.

It's simple:
Your Flag: You Burn
Not Your Flag: Either get permission, arrange to replace flag, or lastly, rethink your mullet hairdon't...

[Tecknowledgy]

Originally posted by Kosmicdog
I'm sure some of these people "protesting" are just looking for an excuse to go mindlessly fucking shit up in an environment where they are unlikely to face any sort of trouble.


Man, that sucks...that's what raves are for...don't go around trying to fuck shit up at a protest.

[burnt]

burning flags......any nation's flag.....doesn't exhibit patriotism, ethics, positivity, peace, or any of this. it only incites hate. it embraces disrespect and ignorance.

its just as wrong and senseless and ignorant as burning books. or burning witches.

you got a problem? articulate your problem. you're against the current administration of a government? articulate your concerns.

if you burn a flag, because you disagree with the administration's position, you're not going to change any minds. you're only going to convince those who support the administration you disagree with, to further support their administration.

just like inadvertently killing civilians while attempting to kill terrorists, inadvertently creates more terrorists.........burning a flag in an attempt to combat unfair administrations, allows those unfair administrators to gain more support and enjoy more success.

[Tecknowledgy]

*looking for interest, it's been lost*

[Rockette]

hey, its their right.

[Meghann C]

Originally posted by Kore (P.I.)
this thread reminds of after Sept. 11th when those kids in Afghanistan were burning American flags. Thats all these flag-burners are, is KIDS, acting like CHILDREN without enough knowledge to act directly or have an educated opinion.

Why dont we get some Iraqi flags and burn them downtown?

fucking preach it brother!

[Carley]

Originally posted by Tecknowledgy


All you asked for was an explanation...I gave you one.

If you wanted an explanation that you liked or that suited you, I could have just told you everything you wanted to hear and blown smoke up your ass all day, but what's the point of that?

Oh dood, it's not like that. I was asking you those questions because I thought you burned flags, and am really interested in the answer. If you don't, then it's to anyone here (is there anyone here?) that's doing it.

*looking for interest, it's been lost*

Yeah. Me too.

:p

[kristinachilds]

Originally posted by Cedwyn
a) we didn't wait until after the revolutionairy war to burn the british flagit doesn't matter *when* they did it. it was still an assertion of a different matter, that did, by the way, lead to independence. they left Britain for a reason.

yes, our forfathers did create a country in which burning of the flag would be allowed, but it's the freedom that they deemed important. again, i doubt any of our forefathers would have burned the american flag. just becuase they could doesn't mean they would.

[kristinachilds]

Originally posted by DJ Rawkus
Because, unlike what Bush and his minions say, Iraq is not oprresing us and is not the threat he claims them to be.he's not oppressing us *now,* you're right, but i'd like to know why you don't think Saddam is a threat. a threat to *us* or a threat to *anybody*?

[kristinachilds]

Originally posted by Mirko
In my view flag burning is distasteful, and probably not a very smart tactic because people may get immediately angered and won't bother to think about why someone would want to burn a flag. I support the right to burn a flag, I'm just not sure it's very effective. wordNow it would be effective however if it was a group of people who were highly respected Americans who have been very supportive of American policies in the past and then this policy in Iraq got them so concerned, and they were against it to the point to protest, double word. the reson flag burning bothers me is becuase flag burning has lacked any sort of meaning (save display of hate of government from groups who hate government no matter what.) flag burning can hold great meaning and message when in the right hands and right circumstance.

to this point it has all* been childish defiance.


*small generalization.I can create more positive change from the inside than I can do uselessly shouting about it from the outside. exactly. school is very important. i can talk, from someone who's been on both sides.that's what i meant, though...that direct life experience is more valuable to effecting change than school learning. you learn more of what's what and exactly what *does* need to be changed. well, that's debatable, depending on individual educations. i guess it really all depends on your social studies/civics instructors, and how actively the student body stays informed. i've been on both sides, and i've come to the conclusion that while life experience is important, in youth, traditional education is equally, if not more, important.Didn't think so. I'll torch a flag any day in respect to those who died for THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.if you want to go a burn a flag, that's your business, but don't say you're going to do it out of respect for veterans who've died. go ASK a few veterans if they would like for a flag to be burned in their honor and see what they say.