Another anti warrior makes an about face.

[Mike S]

http://assyrianchristians.com/i_was_wrong_mar_26_03.htm

No need for me to comment.

MS

[DJ Rawkus]

It's funny how Mike forgets veterans who've joined the anti-war crowd. I'm here to remind everyone they have seen the "victory" of war and are defiantly against it now.

-- Excerpt from a speech delivered in 1933, by Major General Smedley
Butler, USMC.

"WAR IS JUST A RACKET. A racket is best described, I believe, as
something that is not what it seems to the majority of
people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is
conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the
masses.

I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing
else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The
trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent
over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100
percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow
the flag.

I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy
investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should
fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the
Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.

There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang
is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its
"muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war
preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.

It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a
comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three
years and four months in active military service as a member of
this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I
served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to
Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time
being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street
and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for
capitalism.

I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure
of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never
had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental
faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the
orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the
military service.

I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil
interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for
the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in
the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the
benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I
helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of
Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name
before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American
sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that
Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say,
a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given
Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his
racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.

Source: http://www.fas.org/man/smedley.htm
[Federation of American Scientists]

************************************************** **********
Also eye-opening:

General Smedley D. Butler was the most decorated soldier in American
uniform; Commander of the Marine Corps school; and passed over for
Marine Corps commandant only because of his increasingly
anti-imperialist views.

He was very popular with rank-and-file soldiers and veterans. He
strongly defended the "Bonus Marchers", attacked by U.S. troops under
General Douglas MacArthur and Colonel Dwight D. Eisenhower in
Washington DC in 1932.

In an incident whose history is suppressed today, Gen. Butler was
approached by representatives of the Morgan Bank who wished him to
lead a fascist military coup d'itat against the Roosevelt government
in 1932. He refused and went to the press. A Congressional
investigation was eventually suppressed. See Jules Archer, The Plot to
Seize the White House for a recent, documented version of this
cover-up, well-publicized at the time but virtually "blacked out"
today!

[Mike S]

Originally posted by DJ Rawkus
It's funny how Mike forgets veterans who've joined the anti-war crowd. I'm here to remind everyone they have seen the "victory" of war and are defiantly against it now.

-- Excerpt from a speech delivered in 1933, by Major General Smedley
Butler, USMC.

"WAR IS JUST A RACKET. A racket is best described, I believe, as
something that is not what it seems to the majority of
people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is
conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the
masses.

I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing
else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The
trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent
over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100
percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow
the flag.

I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy
investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should
fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the
Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.

There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang
is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its
"muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war
preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.

It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a
comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three
years and four months in active military service as a member of
this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I
served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to
Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time
being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street
and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for
capitalism.

I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure
of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never
had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental
faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the
orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the
military service.

I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil
interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for
the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in
the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the
benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I
helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of
Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name
before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American
sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that
Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say,
a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given
Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his
racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.

Source: http://www.fas.org/man/smedley.htm
[Federation of American Scientists]

************************************************** **********
Also eye-opening:

General Smedley D. Butler was the most decorated soldier in American
uniform; Commander of the Marine Corps school; and passed over for
Marine Corps commandant only because of his increasingly
anti-imperialist views.

He was very popular with rank-and-file soldiers and veterans. He
strongly defended the "Bonus Marchers", attacked by U.S. troops under
General Douglas MacArthur and Colonel Dwight D. Eisenhower in
Washington DC in 1932.

In an incident whose history is suppressed today, Gen. Butler was
approached by representatives of the Morgan Bank who wished him to
lead a fascist military coup d'itat against the Roosevelt government
in 1932. He refused and went to the press. A Congressional
investigation was eventually suppressed. See Jules Archer, The Plot to
Seize the White House for a recent, documented version of this
cover-up, well-publicized at the time but virtually "blacked out"
today!


Whats pathetic is you having to find something from 1933 to attempt to articulate your current position on the US and its policy in Iraq and attempt to equate -if its even true...which is dubious considering it comes from you -the actions of an administration in the 1930's to today's reality.


You are really desperate.

MS

[Effendi]

Originally posted by Mike S

You are really desperate.
MS

Quoting a right wing minister, why don't you start quoting Falwell, at least he is an American that's up your ally

[Mike S]

Originally posted by Effendi


Quoting a right wing minister, why don't you start quoting Falwell, at least he is an American that's up your ally

Does someone have their gibberish translator? If so please translate the monkey babble Scott scribbled.

MS

[Enkidu Kind]

This is typical right-wing Christian pulling of the heartstrings. Catholics learn about this style of persuasion at an early age, and it fucks us up in later years. This guy's argument is motivated mainly from stirring of emotions combined with a great plotline. Which, I might add, keeps us hanging till the end! In the rush of the excitement we're supposed to say, "My God, I see so clearly now. Our Christian nation is obligated to help out these poor brown people."

[Mike S]

Right Wing Christian?

He's an Assyrian Christian. I believe they would be closer to the eastern orthodox church than any western Christian organization.

I think you saw the word "Christian" and had a typical "progressive" visceral reaction to it.. :rolleyes:


The Assyrians are from Northern Iraq.
http://aim.atour.com/

So no its not a matter of our Christian nation helping those poor brown people its a matter of that guy wanting his own people liberated after having his head pulled out of his ass (unlike SOME people around here) upon visiting his people and see and their plight first hand.

MS

[TeknoAXE]

I had no idea the Assyrians were still around :confused:. Those guys bit the dust four thousand years ago.

AXE

[Enkidu Kind]

You can be Assyrian and still have right wing viewpoints. This guy sure does.

[ThrobbingBass]

Originally posted by Mike S
Whats pathetic is you having to find something from 1933 to attempt to articulate your current position on the US and its policy in Iraq and attempt to equate -if its even true...which is dubious considering it comes from you -the actions of an administration in the 1930's to today's reality. You are really desperate.
MS

That's the biggest problem with Americans. They think that the past is soooo far away. In Europe 50 years is a nap! In America we act like 50 years is ancient history. The realities of yesterday are still the realities of today. We have no fucking excuse to be in Iraq. It's not our fucking job to "liberate" people when the entire world votes against us doing it.

The only thing we're liberating is oil. They haven's even gotten sufficient humanitarian aid into Basra yet, and they're already re-starting captured oil refineries in the south. There's a half-dozen American and British mnc's waiting along the Kuwait border, rubbing their greedy fucking hands together, waiting to rush into a military-ruled Iraq and squeeze every ounce of oil out of that country they can, and take every ounce of power away from OPEC that they can.

Why aren't we "liberating" the north Koreans? Why is "negotiation the only route" in North Korea? Because they don't have SHIT in North Korea. They don't have a fucking natural resource that we want. What are we going to invade so we can occupy their dormant Kim-Chee plants, restarting production to supply cheap, plentiful Kim-Chee to the greedy, Kim-Chee-guzzling American public?

Hey Mike, you read a lot. Tell us all about American Fruit in Chile?

[Mike S]

Are you speaking of United Fruit?

Tell you what why don't you tell me what united fruit or the subject of rawkus' post has to do with current political reality.
See most of us don't forget the past.. we learn from it.. whereas some of you seem to cling to it and as a means to reinforce the political reality you want to create for yourself.. You assume that what happened back then not only has not been learned from but is still in effect now. Absurd, intellectually dishonest and just plain ignorant. And so very typical of Seattle's extremist, "progressive", gutter politics.

As to N. Korea and other dictatorial regimes. Are you so naive as to think that every one of those situations is the same and thus can be remedied equally?
Do you remember .. or have you ever learned.. what happened last time we almost liberated the north.. china stepped in. Now.. due to the political bunglings of the UN and a previous administration the North Koreans HAVE nukes.

How do you suggest we liberate the north with out getting S. Korea & Japan incinerated in the process?

Liberating Oil? You're joking right.

Here.. do some reading.. Learn. Evolve.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/bw/20030311/bs_bw/nf200303114729_db008

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030311/bs_nm/markets_oil_dc_6

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A35690-2003Jan23&notFound=true

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/05/opinion/05FRIE.html

http://www.economist.com/opinion/displayStory.cfm?story_id=1592539

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8531-2003Feb26.html


and while you're at it .. why don't you stop and actually think the whole war for oil scenario out (instead of just repeating it because its fashionable with your circle friends) First off in order for this to actually be a war for oil the number of people who would have to either be actively or tacitly duplicitous in what would essentially be an epic conspiracy of treasonous proportions would be staggering.

Think that out for a second. If you're being honest with yourself the entire scenario starts to unravel rather quickly.

If not then...

If you actually think that such a large number of your fellow citizens are so evil and immoral..myself included.. then what the f*ck are still doing here.. better yet if yo actually believe your own words and this is a crime of the proportions you are insinuating why the fuck haven't you taken up arms?
Why?..
Because "blood for oil" is just a vacant propagandistic slogan used by people to illicit an emotional response in a target audience.. you.
And you know it.

If not, try this...An analogy:

Consider the useful idiots in the anti war movement a crowd on a dance floor and the people pulling their strings a DJ.

"no blood for oil" would be the equivalent of that track the dj drops to get his crowds hands in the air every damn time.

Get it bro..?

Anymore questions?

MS

[Mike S]

Originally posted by Enkidu Kind
You can be Assyrian and still have right wing viewpoints. This guy sure does.

How are his views right wing? Maybe I'm missing something but from what I gather the person is an Assyrian Christian who was of the opinion that the war was not in the best interests of the people he is related to both by blood and religion. If what he says in the story is true, his opinion was changed due to his coming to understand the conditions these people lived under in Iraq as well as what it is THEY wanted.

Tell me .. how is what is written here right wing? I don't detect and ounce of conservative philosophy anywhere.
I see a mans religious philosophy but a good portion of that mans philosophy is what originally led him to be anti war.



I'm thinking you really don't know what "right wing" is other than the stereo type you've been taught.. but I may be missing something.. please enlighten me.

MS

[Effendi]

Originally posted by Mike S
First off in order for this to actually be a war for oil the number of people who would have to either be actively or tacitly duplicitous in what would essentially be an epic conspiracy of treasonous proportions would be staggering.

all them suv drivers are some complisitous folks!!

don't worry james, mike would have you believe that this has nothing to do with oil...he is an idiot of course. We have already began pumping oil out of the Rammala oil fields and we haven't even completely taken Um Qassr yet. The only available port to ship it from.

So Oil OBVIOUSLY plays a major role in our objectives.

is this war ONLY about oil.....I think No...

it's about the dollar...vs the Euro.....
it's about not being held hostage by OPEC
it's about testing new American military hardware..
it's about remeinding the entire world that we are the last big dog on the block.....
it's about attempting to create American jobs and jump start the economy..
it's about israeli influence in washington.....
it's about what God want's America to do....
it's about removing from a power an ugly nasty dictator....
it's about protecting America from terrorism...real or imagined
it's about 75,000 other things that make this war impossible Not to happen
it's about our SUV's

feel free to add anymore realities to that list that you deem appropriate.

But I'm absolutely positive about one thing for sure, there is not just One thing that makes this all possible, it is definetly a conglomarate of issues.

Think that out for a second. If you're being honest with yourself the entire scenario starts to unravel rather quickly.

or not........

If not then...

If you actually think that such a large number of your fellow citizens are so evil and immoral..myself included..

I don't think mike, I KNOW!!
and the words are not evil and immoral, the words are Arrognat and Greedy, and don't doubt it!!

then what the f*ck are still doing here..

Because I'm a proud Patriotic American and I don't run from a fight, I FIX the problem!!

better yet if yo actually believe your own words and this is a crime of the proportions you are insinuating why the fuck haven't you taken up arms?

I beleieve we absolutely have!!
I'm not talking about the hooligans, but there are Millions of Peaceful protestors around the world "Taking up arms" and protesting this "Arrogant crime" committed by george bush!!

Why?..
Because "blood for oil" is just a vacant propagandistic slogan used by people to illicit an emotional response in a target audience..

And translated by every nation around the world into every language, and in every one of those languages, there is some fool that everyone is laughing at that says with a straight face "Blood for oil is just a vacant slogan"......lol....but EVERYONE without exception knows better!!

If not, try this...An analogy:

This means "if I didn't put up enough smoke and mirrors a minute ago, then, let me try to confuse the issue alittle more with more BS analogies that re-direct your attention from the real issue at hand".........

MMMKKKK, go ahead mikey....(we know he eats (swallows) anything but this shit is so old it has mold on it, and still...mikey likes it).....lol


Consider the useful idiots in the anti war movement a crowd on a dance floor and the people pulling their strings a DJ.

"no blood for oil" would be the equivalent of that track the dj drops to get his crowds hands in the air every damn time.

Get it bro..?

I understand perfectly...No more Fluff...the real beats go down!!

after all EVERYONE can tell when the troof (the breakdown) comes!!

Anymore questions?
MS
Yes, did your mother have any kids that lived?

Scott!!

[DJ Rawkus]

It's amusing when Mike asks us why we haven't taken up arms and Jason follows suit by asking why we're still in this country if we don't like what's going on. I got some easy answers for them two..
1) cuz cops don't take well to protestors with arms
2) cuz i like this country despite it's psycho gov't. Scott said it best: Patriots don't run (the world).

[ThrobbingBass]

The theory that I heard that I thought was the most applicable was this: That the US saw Iraq as the best location for them to set up permanent military installations (bases) from which to establish a foothold in the Persian Gulf. This is to go with the 600+ permanent military bases the US maintains worldwide. The sun never sets on the US empire, right?

How can this NOT be about oil? Iraq by many estimates has the largest untapped oil reserves on the planet. Many experts think that the only reason they don't produce the volume of their neighbors is that they're light-years behind in the development of their production. The US uses something like 1/3 of the energy resources used on the planet annually, and now we're going to be taking a country by force who happens to have all these oil reserves? Righhht....

So... Mike, Dubya is his father's son, and has his fathers advisors... well, Bush Sr. was the head of the CIA, and as far as conspiracy, treachery, dirty, dirty off-the-record shit goes.... Tell us about the Bay of Pigs vets? What have they been up to for the last 40 years? How about the Shah of Iran? There was a totally straight-forward situation, with no attempts at duplicity or manipulation.

Incidentally, so maybe it was United Fruit, but I notice that after correcting my error, you moved right along and didn't comment on them. What happened to Salvador Allende, when he socialized Chile and nationalized the fruit-processing plants that had been built by foreign (U.S.) interests? Since, it's essentially the same thing that Saddam did with British and U.S. developed oil fields.......

IBTW... How's Halleburton doing? My guess is they'll make a couple bucks off this war.