French Government Bans Term 'E-Mail'

[HexRei]

http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/6333463.htm

PARIS - Goodbye "e-mail," the French government says, and hello "courriel" - the term that linguistically sensitive France is now using to refer to electronic mail in official documents.

The Culture Ministry has announced a ban on the use of "e-mail" in all government ministries, documents, publications or Web sites, the latest step to stem an incursion of English words into the French lexicon.

The ministry's General Commission on Terminology and Neology insists Internet surfers in France are broadly using the term "courrier electronique" (electronic mail) instead of e-mail - a claim some industry experts dispute. "Courriel" is a fusion of the two words.

"Evocative, with a very French sound, the word 'courriel' is broadly used in the press and competes advantageously with the borrowed 'mail' in English," the commission has ruled.

The move to ban "e-mail" was announced last week after the decision was published in the official government register on June 20. Courriel is a term that has often been used in French-speaking Quebec, the commission said.

The 7-year-old commission has links to the Academie Francaise, the prestigious institution that has been one of the top opponents of allowing English terms to seep into French.

Some Internet industry experts say the decision is artificial and doesn't reflect reality.

"The word 'courriel' is not at all actively used," Marie-Christine Levet, president of French Internet service provider Club Internet, said Friday. "E-mail has sunk in to our values."

She said Club Internet wasn't changing the words it uses.

"Protecting the language is normal, but e-mail's so assimilated now that no one thinks of it as American," she said. "Courriel would just be a new word to launch."

[bungle bliss]

ROFL

Is this for real??

[186k\sec]

who cares what they want to call it.

they can call it maird mail for all I care.


... ZZ zzzz ZZZZ zzz

[Mirko]

So French government ministries will use "courriel", but I suspect the French people won't say "courriel" any more than Americans say "Freedom Fries". It is amusing though-- I'd forgotten France had a Ministry of Culture. I guess the current US equivalent of that institution is the White House.

[gletscher]

the academie francaise is notorious for stuff like this.

doesn't surprise me, doesn't bother me.

even before our move to "freedom fries", we didn't call them pommes frites.

ever eaten at quick?

[HexRei]

Originally posted by 186k\sec
who cares what they want to call it.

they can call it maird mail for all I care.


... ZZ zzzz ZZZZ zzz

Right, and if the american gov't tried to pull something like this you'd be screaming fascism and censorship. Your double standard is disgustingly obvious.

[HexRei]

Originally posted by Mirko
So French government ministries will use "courriel", but I suspect the French people won't say "courriel" any more than Americans say "Freedom Fries". It is amusing though-- I'd forgotten France had a Ministry of Culture. I guess the current US equivalent of that institution is the White House.

Got examples? didn't think so.

[186k\sec]

Right, and if the american gov't tried to pull something like this you'd be screaming fascism and censorship. Your double standard is disgustingly obvious.

heh.
your french bigotry and hate is disgustingly obvious.

where in the term 'email' are the words American.?

[bungle bliss]

So did you make this thread to bait people into responding so you could be a crabby little bitch to them?

I thought so. :D

Aaaanyway...Who REALLY gives a fuck what the French choose to call their email. Anybody? Christ on a crutch. I doubt anyone will pay attention, just like Mirko said. Nobody called fries "Freedom fries", with the exception of a few hillbilly restaurants, you know, the kind frequented by Confederate flag-wavers who claim to hate the government but then turn around and do everything they are told to do by the Ministry of Cul....I mean the White House...

[HexRei]

Originally posted by 186k\sec


heh.
your french bigotry and hate is disgustingly obvious.

where in the term 'email' are the words American.?

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=email

[HexRei]

Originally posted by bungle bliss
So did you make this thread to bait people into responding so you could be a crabby little bitch to them?

I thought so. :D

Aaaanyway...Who REALLY gives a fuck what the French choose to call their email. Anybody? Christ on a crutch. I doubt anyone will pay attention, just like Mirko said. Nobody called fries "Freedom fries", with the exception of a few hillbilly restaurants, you know, the kind frequented by Confederate flag-wavers who claim to hate the government but then turn around and do everything they are told to do by the Ministry of Cul....I mean the White House...

I simply find it ironic that the same people who cried about Freedom Fries are making excuses in this case.
Typical, but ironic.

[seattle science]

It's called inconsistency. In this case a bias. (anti-america)

[186k\sec]

Oddly enough, the word `emailed' is actually listed in the OED;
it means "embossed (with a raised pattern) or perh. arranged in a
net or open work". A use from 1480 is given. The word is probably
derived from French `e'maille'' (enameled) and related to Old French
`emmailleu"re' (network). A French correspondent tells us that in
modern French, `email' is a hard enamel obtained by heating special
paints in a furnace; an `emailleur' (no final e) is a craftsman who
makes email (he generally paints some objects (like, say, jewelry)
and cooks them in a furnace).

so, the french coined the term 'email' : and have chosen to rename it..

how does this equate to being anti-american again?

[Mirko]

Originally posted by HexRei
I simply find it ironic that the same people who cried about Freedom Fries are making excuses in this case.
I can't speak for anyone else, but the mood seems to be: who fucking cares what the French government calls "e-mail"? "Freedom Fries" and "courriel" are both silly. The difference is, one was a mean-spirited political move, and the other was an attempt to make a French version of an English term.

[Cedwyn]

^^^
examples of what? he hardly claimed anything.

Right, and if the american gov't tried to pull something like this you'd be screaming fascism and censorship. Your double standard is disgustingly obvious.

wow...i thought that was mikes until i checked the poster.

but anyhoo...the two instances could not be more different: The 7-year-old commission (on Terminology and Neology) has links to the Academie Francaise, the prestigious institution that has been one of the top opponents of allowing English terms to seep into French
academie francaise has been around for centuries, fighting to establish french as the dominant language over latin, so this is hardly a new thing for france. as early as 30 years ago, the institution was taking pains to keep english lingo out of the lexicon.

contrast that with our congress adopting "freedom fries" in direct response to france's opposition to war in iraq.

apples and oranges

[seattle science]

Gimme a break. Christ. Why can't some people just face reality. They are't renaming it for no reason.

The French treat Americans like shit, but it's ok. We're the ones who hold a grudge and won't repair relations.

The French are up to their elbows in oil deals with Saddam, but it's ok. We're the ones who want the oil.

The French treat muslim immigrants like human garbage, but it's ok. We're the anti-arab racists.

And so on and so on.

It doesn't even have to be the French, that you people are apologists for. You will make excuses for any other country, especially if it opposes the US. Hence the aforementioned inconsistency and anti-America bias.

[HexRei]

no, this is characteristic of the french belief that their culture is superior to any other and should not be sullied or tainted by other cultures. *shrug*
that's the point of Academie Francaise.

[HexRei]

Originally posted by 186k\sec
Oddly enough, the word `emailed' is actually listed in the OED;
it means "embossed (with a raised pattern) or perh. arranged in a
net or open work". A use from 1480 is given. The word is probably
derived from French `e'maille'' (enameled) and related to Old French
`emmailleu"re' (network). A French correspondent tells us that in
modern French, `email' is a hard enamel obtained by heating special
paints in a furnace; an `emailleur' (no final e) is a craftsman who
makes email (he generally paints some objects (like, say, jewelry)
and cooks them in a furnace).

so, the french coined the term 'email' : and have chosen to rename it..

how does this equate to being anti-american again?

The modern technological term "email" has no etymological relationship with the ancient french term "e'maille". if you don't understand the evolution of the word "email", and how your example is completely irrelevant, then I can't help you except to say it must be hard to be that dumb.

[bungle bliss]

Originally posted by HexRei


I simply find it ironic that the same people who cried about Freedom Fries are making excuses in this case.
Typical, but ironic.

Who ever really took "Freedom Fries" seriously either?

It makes a lot more sense to create a French term for "email", since e-mail isn't French. We wouldn't call email "courriel", would we? And if we would, why? "Electronique-courrier"? Would Americans, especially NOW, put up with that? I don't think so.

This and freedom fries aren't really a comparable situation. This is one of linguistics. Like I said, we wouldn't call e-mail courriel. And if we did, Congress would draft legislation to change it to "e-mail", and everyone would laugh, and keep calling it courriel. The freedom fries thing was just some gimmick thought up by idiotic hatriots, it had nothing to do with preserving our language, and everything to do with being, well, stupid.

[bungle bliss]

Originally posted by HexRei
no, this is characteristic of the french belief that their culture is superior to any other and should not be sullied or tainted by other cultures. *shrug*
that's the point of Academie Francaise.

And Americans don't think the same way????

Yeesh.

Yes, it really must be hard for you to be that dumb. Or at least that unobservant.

[bungle bliss]

http://www.inq7.net/nat/2003/mar/17/nat_30-2.htm

Freedom fries

Ney's fury over things French, however, is not grounded on facts. The French Embassy said French fries were invented by the Belgians. The fact is that in France, the thing is called "pomme frite" (fried potatoes) and the English call it "chips," the inseparable accompaniment to fish and chips. Very likely, it is the Americans who invented "French fries," which have become part of the vocabulary of our American-style fast-food establishments.
-------

So, the French already have a modern word, "email" which means something completely different than "electronic mail", so they choose to stop calling electronic mail "email" and instead draft up a word to use in their own language?

How haughty! How anti-American! ;)

[HexRei]

Originally posted by bungle bliss
http://www.inq7.net/nat/2003/mar/17/nat_30-2.htm

Freedom fries

Ney's fury over things French, however, is not grounded on facts. The French Embassy said French fries were invented by the Belgians. The fact is that in France, the thing is called "pomme frite" (fried potatoes) and the English call it "chips," the inseparable accompaniment to fish and chips. Very likely, it is the Americans who invented "French fries," which have become part of the vocabulary of our American-style fast-food establishments.
-------

??? so? The House chose to change their cafeteria menu. Stupid and childish, yes. But how exactly is that comparable to creating a branch of gov't solely dedicated to making sure other languages don't taint our own?
Do you have an example that is even remotely similar?

[seattle science]

Originally posted by bungle bliss


And Americans don't think the same way????

Yeesh.

Yes, it really must be hard for you to be that dumb. Or at least that unobservant.



Did this idiot really just say that the French aren't any more ethnocentric and snotty than Americans?

Apologists. Sad.

It wouldn't even matter if Americans were half as ethnocentric as the French. It would be wrong for us to be, and perfectly alright for them to be.

[186k\sec]

yeaeaah.. hex, im a dummy.

American is Apple Pie, Chevy, Kid Rock & now EMAIL!!?!?

haha hahaHhaha... fucking stupid.
talk about wetting the bed!
:rolleyes:

[HexRei]

Originally posted by bungle bliss


And Americans don't think the same way????

Yeesh.

Yes, it really must be hard for you to be that dumb. Or at least that unobservant.



Oh, I must have missed the establishment of the gov't-run "English Academy", dedicated to keeping the english language pure of mongrel languages...?

[Cedwyn]

i think the point of 186's post was that the french language already had a word so close to email (emaille) that they wanted to give email a french name to avoid confusion.

and the academie francais has been on its purity of language trip for centuries.

[bungle bliss]

Originally posted by Cedwyn
i think the point of 186's post was that the french language already had a word so close to email (emaille) that they wanted to give email a french name to avoid confusion.

Thank you. I edited my post above to say that before I saw this one.

Now, when they choose to rename American cheese just to be spiteful, then I'll bitch. But as far as I know, they haven't pulled anything like that.

[HexRei]

Originally posted by Cedwyn
i think the point of 186's post was that the french language already had a word so close to email (emaille) that they wanted to give email a french name to avoid confusion.


Except that that's not why they did it. The Academie makes changes to keep French pure of other cultural influences.

[Cedwyn]

^^^

according to the language of that specific article, no. but we do not know that such concerns were not a part of the decision.

but even if it weren't, i think the AF is merely out to preserve the french language, not establish a hegemony of french culture around the world; they lost that battle long ago.

but again; AF has been on this trip for centuries. one might as well get mad at bees for stinging.

[Roddimus]

That's just silly.
Even if it's not for reasons of spite against America, it's still absurd.

[bungle bliss]

Originally posted by Cedwyn
^^^

but even if it weren't, i think the AF is merely out to preserve the french language, not establish a hegemony of french culture around the world; they lost that battle long ago.



I know right. You don't see any "Project for the New French Century" doctrines (manifestos? ;) ) floating around. How about we worry less about AF and more about PNAC. :rolleyes:

[HexRei]

Originally posted by Cedwyn
^^^

according to the language of that specific article, no. but we do not know that such concerns were not a part of the decision.

but even if it weren't, i think the AF is merely out to preserve the french language, not establish a hegemony of french culture around the world; they lost that battle long ago.

but again; AF has been on this trip for centuries. one might as well get mad at bees for stinging.

Absolutely. The AF isn't trying to force their culture on anyone else, they're just doing what they've always done, and although it seems petty to me as an american, I'm sure they consider it simply preserving their culture.

[Cedwyn]

lol, bungle!

you're so cheeky! ;)