The future of jazz music?

[Jungle Toad]

I grew up around a lot of jazz and blues music, and though I didn't really appreciate it that much as a kid, I really got into it later in college. I was really obsessed with jazz history for awhile and have a fair amount of facts crammed into my head about where jazz has been and where it's going.

For awhile though, I wasn't really into the what the modern jazz musicians were doing (The Marsalis bros., Roy Hargrove, Joshua Redman). I felt it was good jazz, it was skillful, and it was keeping a tradition alive, but it just wasn't pushing jazz in any radically new directions.

However, in the last couple of years I think there have been some groundbreaking releases and they are almost all from the Thirsty Ear label's Blue Series Continuum.

Is any one else familiar with this series? They have released CDs like:

Matthew Shipp- New Orbit
Guillermo E. Brown- Soul at the hands of the machine (my favorite of the series)
Matthew Shipp VS Antipop Cosortium
DJ Spooky- Optometry
Spring Heel Jack- Masses
William Parker Quartet- Raining on the moon

The basic idea is that they grab the best of the modern jazz artists on their label and the best of the electronic musicians on their label, then they stick them in a room together until something brilliant comes out. The Blue Series Continuum is a constantly rotating cast of musicians with no real commitment to any genre classification that only strive to push and stretch the boundaries of the jazz artform.

I feel like this is the future of jazz-- these musical prisms resulting from different musical minds colliding and scattering their styles into new forms. Are others familiar with this movement? Where do you think jazz is headed? Where should it be headed? Is jazz growing or losing its tradition?

[Dj X-Zit]

Spooky is awesome.
Also for a record label check out:
"Sonar Circle" its good jazzy dnb.

Atomspheric drum and bass has been out for quite some time now.
Actually its more along the lines of Jungle.


Also if your really into Jazz check out "Future sounds of Jazz" some tight shit there.
There are severel CDs out of it right now--its some really good stuff that totally crosses boundrys.

Anyhow hope this helps!!


Oh and NOTE: For me I personally feel that Jazz is making a huge combination with DnB loops. Esspecially if you check out some of the newer synths--such as the Korg Karma. The Karma has severel dnb loop combo synth patterns in it.
Such as something like "Space DnB and Piano"
Its some pretty cool stuff and Jazz loops/improve sounds REALLY good over DnB--

--WIll

[Jungle Toad]

I like atmospheric dnb for chilling after a party or when I'm studying. I saw LTJ Bukem and MC Conrad a few years back in an intimate little club with about 50 people there and it was really cool.

The thing is though, I feel that the jazz is weak in atmospheric stuff. I can enjoy it, but if I pay too much attention to it, then the jazz snob in me picks it apart for being jazzy without being jazz.

Do others feel this way or is it just me?

[_JM]

Originally posted by Jungle Toad
Do others feel this way or is it just me?

Naw, you're right, jacuzzi jungle is nice but not jazz in any appreciable sense.

Actually Dominic from Sonar Circle is producing 'broken beat' under the name Domu now. He was in town and I got to check out a couple of his forthcoming jungle tracks. Some of the most genuinely 'jazz' jungle I've heard, really hot changes and fractured arrangement. The other dude who was good on that side was Leon Mar, who used to record as Arcon 2 on Reinforced. His tunes from six years ago still really stand out.

I've seen Matthew Shipp and William Parker a couple times here in town and it was amazing.

As far as contemporary jazz goes, I'm feeling those guys, the beautiful leftovers of the 70's 'spiritual' scene (Art Ensemble, AACM, Horace Tapscott / People's Arkestra scene from LA), and some Latin bop musicians. Like Danilo Perez, who just kills.

I want to see Leon Parker sometime too, that's a drummer that I'd like to check out more.

[slowburn]

I too am a little dissatisfied with electronica that is" jazzy, without being jazz." I'd love to hear something from a broken beat or dnb perspective that goes hella DEEP into music theory like the jazz that I love. Alot has been done with odd time signatures... check out the new Burnt Friedman and the Nu Dub Players album "can't cool".. definitely some next shit. ... I mean Squarepusher comes from a jazz background and rips it up, but it seems like alot of his songs only revolve around one or two chord changes. ;-) I wanna hear augmented sharp 9s and shit, dammit!

[greencell]

Check out the Cinematic Orchestra. NinjaTune is the future of jazz.

B

[Jungle Toad]

Well, I'm gonna have to give Sonar Circle a listen. :) Burnt Friedman and the Nu Dub Players sounds dope too. Thanks for the recommendations people.

Dude, _JM where did Matthew Shipp and William Parker play?!? I would kill to see those cats. To these ears they are modern day legends.

I definitely feel squarepusher. In electronic there are three artists I consider my "big three" and they are Squarepusher, Aphex Twin, and Amon Tobin. Personally, I just feel that those guys push this music like no others. You're right that squarepusher doesn't switch chords all that often, but it really depends on the track. He can play a mean bass when he wants to.

And yes, I'm a big Ninja Tune fan as well. Cinematic Orchestra is nice, Amon Tobin is omnipotent, and I'm really digging Jaga Jazzist right now for that kind of future jazz I'm talking about. Quality label.

Other people to keep your ear on for future jazz that aren't part of Thirsty Ear's blue series continuum include: Medeski Martin &^Wood, DJ Logic & Project Logic, Bill Laswell (and the many people he produces for), Yohimbe Brothers, Courtney Pine, Sex Mob, The Baldwin Brothers, Don Byron, etc.....

[Sky Scream]

Originally posted by Jungle Toad
Amon Tobin is omnipotent

:D

[My_PureEnRg]

I fucking love jazz, I wish there were more mixes out there with some jazz in em.. hhm someone should play around a little..

[Boyd Main]

I highly recommend a recent EP on the ~scape label which is a collaboration between Jan Jelinek and an Australian jazz outfit called Triosk. It's called "1+3+1" and it is a brilliant exploration of future jazz. Jan Jelinek's earlier "loop-finding-jazz-records" LP on ~scape is also brilliant. Kind of like microhouse with jazz samples, so possibly too structured to be real jazz, but the 1+3+1 release really does feel more like real jazz, with shifting shuffling time signatures. I'm loving it.

[Elroy]

Hmm... it's funny this came up.

I'm not so huge on the jazz thing, but I definitely appreciate the theories behind it.

I was listening to the Squarepusher album "Hard Normal Daddy," just last night and I pondered it a bit.

When that album came out it was fuckin' raw. I mean raw obviously not in the testosterone kinda raw, but in the fresh, untainted kind of way. Maybe it was just my young ears, but that album at the time was the shit.

Since then idm, abstract high bpm broken beat, jazz-step - all these things that I find in the album have been exploered a lot more.

This is not to elude that the album is not good music, but the wind is kind of out of the sails for me. What once seemed like the perfect convergence of tradition, technology and chaos, now seems predictable and almost tiresome. The drum patterns aren't as far out as they once seemed... the samples are stale. I couldn't help but wonder how far away some of the songs are from the elevator jazz of 2027.

I guess this happens a lot, and I guess it is always a good sign that things in fact do move forward - when you can look back and see something slightly older at a distance.

[Jungle Toad]

Originally posted by Boyd Main
I highly recommend a recent EP on the ~scape label which is a collaboration between Jan Jelinek and an Australian jazz outfit called Triosk. It's called "1+3+1" and it is a brilliant exploration of future jazz. Jan Jelinek's earlier "loop-finding-jazz-records" LP on ~scape is also brilliant. Kind of like microhouse with jazz samples, so possibly too structured to be real jazz, but the 1+3+1 release really does feel more like real jazz, with shifting shuffling time signatures. I'm loving it.
Jelinek is interesting. I have his Computer Soup album. The ~scape label is doing some weird stuff. Actually, this is true of the whole glitch/click scene. Some of it I like, some of it puts me to sleep. All their emphasis on tiny sounds and minimal composition intrigues me, but it rarely moves me. Know what I mean? (The exception to this would be people like Prefuse 73 and Machine Drum) I'll give that 1 + 3 + 1 record a fair listen, because I have liked some of Jelenik's others stuff like the loop-finding-jazz and La Nouvelle Pauvrete, I just haven't liked his stuff as Farben much, so he is kind of hit and miss for me.

[Jungle Toad]

I just remembered something. Awhile back the Thirsty Ear people struck a deal with Borders books and released a CD sampler of the blue series continuum artists that is sold exclusively through Borders for only like 2 or 3 dollars. If you want to just get a taste for some of the direction this music is headed without spending a lot of cash. My recommendation however, is that you start with Guillermo E. Brown's "Soul at the Hands of the Machine" and see if you like that, then go from there.

[_JM]

Originally posted by Jungle Toad
Dude, _JM where did Matthew Shipp and William Parker play?!? I would kill to see those cats. To these ears they are modern day legends.

They've both played here a few times over the years. I want to say that I saw them together at the Brechemin Auditorium at UW in '97?

Matthew Shipp was at Earshot two years ago but I missed that show for some reason.

[slowburn]

The Bad Plus is a piano, upright, + drums trio that covers an aphex twin song on thier new album. the piano player's ambidexterity alone makes this one worth checking out.

thanks for reccomending Triosk. sounds cool. and also Jaga Jazzist is the shit.

[Headphones Dude]

Jazz is one of those musical institutions I find myself enjoying, but never really knowing how to fully appreciate like most other jazz lovers do. It's been around almost as long as the blues has, has seen great players come and go, but it's really hard to pin point where it could go. I usually find myself listening to the "smooth jazz" sound, but part of me thinks "Why did they ignore what Coltraine and Davis were doing?". It doesn't seem like there's any trail-blazing anymore, and that there were no rules. I know what I don't like, is the Kenny G sound, but I suppose it has it's fan base....I'm not sure if and when I'll ever get into jazz. Part of me doesn't have too much of a real connection to it, like I've had in my past with rock and electronic music.....

[Jungle Toad]

Originally posted by Headphones Dude
I'm not sure if and when I'll ever get into jazz. Part of me doesn't have too much of a real connection to it, like I've had in my past with rock and electronic music.....

hmmm... well there are a few jazz albums that manage to please both the masses and the jazz afficionados, so maybe you should start with some of those?

Examples:
Les McCann and Eddie Harris- Swiss Movement
Herbie Hancock- Headhunters
Ramsey Lewis- The In Crowd

Also, jazz is easiest to appreciate when you can see a really good performer live. Unfortunately though, a lot of the old legends are dying off, so you need to act quick. One of the best live shows I had ever seen was Gene Harris, and he died a month later. Likewise, I was blown away by Ray Brown and he died soon after too. See the legends while you still can.

[Roddimus]

LTJ Bukem's full length LP "Journey Inwards" is one of the best jazz albums to have come out this century.
Also, ALL of the Good Looking's "Earth" compliations are pure gold (in fact, most ANYthing from the Good Looking label is worth checking out).
Peshay's "Mile's from Home" is solid on all fronts.
DJ Greyboy keeps it proper with his snappy, jazzy beats. "Land of the Lost" is still one of my favorite jazz infused hip hop albums.
The Greyboy Allstars take a more traditional approach to their jazz and funk, but they still managed to belt out some of the best contemporary jazz tracks available.
There's tons more I'm forgetting right now...
I'll add some more later.

[corbettfields]

I'm ever hopefull and encouraged about teh spirit of Jazz,but i'm sorry, but i think we need to ground ourselves sometimes.. do we really think modern electronica stuff like Tuby Trio, Bukem, Scruff, etc NO MATTER HOW FRICKIN GOOD (which they are) are remotely comparable to Kind Of Blue, Sketches From Spain, Bitches Brew? I mean, c'mon.... I dont think there is anything comparable, although there is plenty of enjoyable music along these lines....

I think this is maybe because teh jazz club and circuit has become a sterotypical place of cigars and whiskey and complacency - a yuppie hangout for "cool" business meetings or "cool thing to do"

somewhat similair to house music!

U2 or Radiohead may be great bands, but are they comparable to the Beatles, beach Boys, Faces, Bowie???

no! IMO

we need to support much more innovative music, like leftfiled jazz and electronica .

a call to arms (or ears!) i say

[Jungle Toad]

^^^ I agree, except I think Radiohead is better than the Beach Boys. :p

[_JM]

Originally posted by corbettfields
I'm ever hopefull and encouraged about teh spirit of Jazz,but i'm sorry, but i think we need to ground ourselves sometimes.. do we really think modern electronica stuff like Tuby Trio, Bukem, Scruff, etc NO MATTER HOW FRICKIN GOOD (which they are) are remotely comparable to Kind Of Blue, Sketches From Spain, Bitches Brew? I mean, c'mon.... I dont think there is anything comparable, although there is plenty of enjoyable music along these lines....

Two things: we are now several decades removed from these albums, which means we didn't have to suffer through the ocean of crap records that also came out then. Time allows the cream to rise to the top, you don't get that experience when you go look at new releases.

Also consider the state of electronic music now versus jazz music in the late fifties to sixties. Jazz at that point was already fortyish years old. It had been through large-scale changes with an established vernacular and many accomplished players. It'll take a few more years before we get a base of electronic guys with that level of experience and maturity.

[corbettfields]

Originally posted by Jungle Toad
^^^ I agree, except I think Radiohead is better than the Beach Boys. :p

well i sort of agree in general , but very little is half as good as Pet Sounds!

[corbettfields]

Originally posted by _JM


Two things: we are now several decades removed from these albums, which means we didn't have to suffer through the ocean of crap records that also came out then. Time allows the cream to rise to the top, you don't get that experience when you go look at new releases.

Also consider the state of electronic music now versus jazz music in the late fifties to sixties. Jazz at that point was already fortyish years old. It had been through large-scale changes with an established vernacular and many accomplished players. It'll take a few more years before we get a base of electronic guys with that level of experience and maturity.

i hope you are right, but the "fusion jazz" of today and 99% of the electronic music today is hardly as inventive or exciting (or controversial!) as the Jazz of 55-75 or even the electronic/minimilistic music of the 40-70s...

Please dont think that electronic music is either unique or new though...