move over vinyl?

[bonoboboogie]

I love vinyl. It's warm, it sounds great, it's tactile, it's sexy.

But as digital formats become more prevalent, I wonder if it has a future.

Maybe it would even be good for the industry. If consumers could pay to download tracks, more money (theoretically) would go to producers and dj's instead of pressing plants and shipping companies. And there would be less time between a promo and a commercial release, reducing the 'by the time you can buy it you've heard it so many times you don't want it' factor.
And DJ's would be able to buy whatever tracks they wanted, not just the ones they were lucky and quick enough to find.

What do you think?
Does vinyl have a future?
Will mp3's be the saviour or the death knell of the dance music industry?

[djsadiablo]

lap toppers aren't djs

[DJ_Lukki]

Originally posted by djsadiablo
lap toppers aren't djs

Are you against Final Scratch?

I personally am not against it. I think its a great tool for people to play out tunes they otherwise would not be able to. It def. maintains the performance-aspect of vinyl, while CDJ's often dont, just because alot of people rely on that black-plastic circle to know when one ends and another begins, and also, where the hell the music is coming from.

Dont get me wrong, I would probably only use final scratch/cdj for 30% of my set, I cant ignore my babies! haha.


Anyway, this topic has proably been beaten to death before, so Im out. just my $.02.

[flutter]

i dunno...if a show is good..and people are dancing...and a person mixes it off a laptop or a turntable setup, and is having fun...and not trippin...

i would say they are a 'dj. ' by definition...right?

i say use all the tools you can to make your show/trip rock harder. then you're an artist using music as the momentary medium.

[solenoid]

Originally posted by djsadiablo
lap toppers aren't djs

yeah, well,
'djs aren't producers' either, haha...

I'd rather have a laptop and gear over my turntables any day of the week, and I say that having 1000s of records.... in the end I know that vinyl is irellevent compared to the music, portability, selection, etc. If it sticks around another 30 years, it will just be purely vinyl-fetishism, scratch/turntablistist, and ritual that sustains it, because everyone else will have devices with so much capacity, programability and portability that vinyl will look as convenient and efficient as a manual typewriter.

The new version of Traktor could actually up the ante on dj'ing by letting dj's work with tuning seperate from beatmatching. All for the price of 4-5 records (if you pay). When is the last time you heard someone match the tunings of the records?? (iow, either the records were all exactly the same bpm and in complimentary keys, or they pitched up/down into beatmatches that also were exact whole/half steps on the same chromatic scale). ...1979?

It is so forgotten, I'd bet that 90% of dj's wouldn't even know what that means, or hadn't given it more than a passing thought.

;) ;o

trolling down the ave.,

-soul annoyed

[pulse_/\/]

I never want to hear anyone say that vinyl is going out again.
vinyl is part of the culture. when you watch some one spin and you see the record spinning round and round you ge a feeling tat i cant describe. when you see a cd dj you just dont get that feeling or a lap dj. I feel that final scratch is totally bad ass and should be used by all dj's that can afford to use a lap top.

my verdict vinyl is here to stay and if its not im gonna be the only one using it.

[djowns]

Sole point of a dj (in my eyes): Make people dance, provide audio that is pleasing, provide a mood or atmosphere. A DJ will do so by selecting tracks and at what time they are played and what order. A dj mixes tracks together to keep the change smooth.


I didn't believe for a while that anything but vinyl was DJing, than I bought into CDJ's... and then I kinda thought it all out, and the medium really does not make the DJ. So it comes down to a prefernce as to what medium allows you to do, what you want to do, the best. Some one once told me "Work smarter not harder".

Vinyl is just such an functional format, however, I would be hard pressed to change to anything else. You can see where the break downs are on vinyl, you develope memory with tracks of where to cue not to mention "fast forward" far quicker and with more accuracy.

Final scratch is getting close however...

[solenoid]

I guess that as my live gear and tools are getting smaller (including a portable electronic drum pad, the stand and brackets for which all fit in a small backpack) and only my vinyl isn't. After 10 yrs of sporadic dj'ing, the damn records are still big and heavy-- the size of a crate-- and I'm still not mixing in my own tracks until they get to vinyl. IOW, my vinyl is not offering any new advantages. I like to bring a crate to chose from when I mix, and this can feel limiting sometimes in terms of choice. Cab fare and luggability is forever the same. It is getting to the point where I can drag all kinds of live gear setups on buses, planes, trains for gigs, and by comparison I start to dread dragging vinyl.

Also, my ambitions with mixing are limited by the dig-out-the-record-throw-it-down-cue-it-up world of physical *work*. I'd like to manipulate the records more and mix/layer them faster and have my own remixes/mashups more conveniently. I have so far just done mashups live, as playing a cd recording of one doesn't allow the control...

Still, until someone donates a couple years digitizing my vinyl (lots of which is not on file-sharing sites, or else I see shitty 96-128kbps compression with lousy bass) I'm stuck using vinyl. But I'm sick of living with 25+ crates stacked around my room, and my taste in music is too broad to have to keep it all on vinyl (I just never sought the cd versions when cds first came out in '88 and kept buying vinyl) It will take me years to digitize this vinyl and catalog it (256kbps base rate or better); I'll never catch up it seems. I did finish my early country collection last year though, but that was only 80+ recs.... I calc'd it was more efficient to digitize myself than to seek out cd copies of everything (time=$) and pay for them (more $).

I really welcome a standardized final scratch type setup in dj booths where the record interface is retained, but there is a swappable mass storage and selection of via portable harddrive/pc (and database, x-referencing, etc) is possible. I've seen 1/3 of Final Scratch gigs have techincal problems so far, so I'm not won over yet in terms of reliability.

I agree that the response time is pretty good on the vinyl I felt, almost as immediate as a 1-hop midi chain... 5-15ms is decent for percussive scratching!

...and don't think I don't know the vinyl culture, I've been crate digging for 20 years and have roughly 6000 records, long beyond reason. It is just that the very culture of vinyl limits the potential to explore music, and there is no really good reason, as it is just recordings. It isn't like your having to unlock the secret skill to play tablas/talking-drums by doing 20 years of training under a mentor, they are just recordings.

Final Scratch reduces the medium to a shell of itself - a record
is still 'going round and round' as you need, pulse_/\/, but none of the rest of the limitations of vinyl apply....

solenoid

[dj jakub]

one interesting thing to be on the look out for in april is RANE's version of final scratch. I'm intersting to see how it will end up comparing, just from the pictures it looks more sturdy, can't wait to play with it and see the latency, something that still bugs me in final scratch, especially when mixing techno and doing long 2-3 mixes.

[Tydye]

Whats the deal with the general attitude "Dude if you dont spin vinyl then your not a real DJ?" I mean after all the music was digitaly made... Why do so many people feel the need to play it on a analog device? Me personally.. I Love CDJ's, but then again I'm a psytrance freak.

[corbettfields]

I'm sticking with mix tapes;....

[PulpMind]

vinyl sucks.
it sounds like shit. it's cumbersome. fucking pain in the ass. I don't even book vinyl DJs nine times out of ten anymore.
everyone I know is going CD. It's unfortunate that all those music purchases aren't going the same direction =T
CD sounds better than vinyl. MP3 does not.


Shu'kran,
- Jesiah

[corbettfields]

Downloads surpassed vinyl in UK recently!

CDs are #1

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/music/3475337.stm

[Randall Glenn]

"Hey Randall long time no see!! When you coming back here to play?

Unfortunately, we have recently had to cut back on our mailing list from
over 200 people to just 50. This is mainly due to the decline in sales
over the last few years. We could no longer justify giving away so many
promotional copies
I think a lot of the decline has to do with CDR copying and downloads.
This has to be a major contributor. We are about to start offering
digital downloads to at least try to earn some money from this.
.We will soon be starting digital
downloads of our tracks with hooj.com and kismet.com and possible one in
the US too called beatport."

Regards,

Justin (Plastic Fantastic)


Yes CDR is taking a big bit out of the 12" and it will for some time! I still love to spinn vinyl and always will! But i do also get a shit load of promos on CDR and instead of vinyl now. Major record Comp. are all goingto be going to downloads for promos...i know all the record labels i get my promo stuff are. Its faster and easy..but i still like the 12" pressing. Even technic mad a turntable for cd's called the the SL-dz1200..fucker is just like a turntable and has slip mats that act just like vinyl..just released few weeks ago in London @ TurnMills ..Deep Dish released the model for Technic's. Im new here to seattle so give me some feed back!! Id love to meet some of the locakl dj's here while im up here!!

Take Care

Randall Glenn(www.SentientAudioCollective.com)

[solenoid]

I walked by Djangos (downtown pdx) today on my lunch break from werrk and it WAS CLOSED!! Okay, this is a used rec shop I shopped at probably 1-2 times a month from 1983-1990 and then almost weekly 1991-(last week). This is some serious shizzit!!! I knocked on the window (all the recs, cds, dvds and furniture were GONE) and one of the old employees was in there sweeping bits of trash. We talked about the fate of other rec stores and agreed that ebay was the way to go to buy rare vinyl, unless you wanted to wait for a 'deal' on something. Django's is only running an ebay-based resale office now.

There ends 20+ years of my crate digging there! r.i.p.

solenoid

[theperfectcyn]

Originally posted by solenoid
I walked by Djangos (downtown pdx) today on my lunch break from werrk and it WAS CLOSED!! Okay, this is a used rec shop I shopped at probably 1-2 times a month from 1983-1990 and then almost weekly 1991-(last week). This is some serious shizzit!!! I knocked on the window (all the recs, cds, dvds and furniture were GONE) and one of the old employees was in there sweeping bits of trash. We talked about the fate of other rec stores and agreed that ebay was the way to go to buy rare vinyl, unless you wanted to wait for a 'deal' on something. Django's is only running an ebay-based resale office now.

There ends 20+ years of my crate digging there! r.i.p.

solenoid

same goes for chaos existence....

[unknownp0et]

I never want to hear my children saying that...

I personally love the warmth of vinyl, I love the skill it takes to manipulate that black disk so that it makes the sound you want it to make. I love the feel of the grooves under my fingers. I love dusty crates full of forgotten tracks that are just waiting for another life. I'm sick for it.

Yeah, vinyl is part of the culture, an intrigal part.

I don't care if records go out of style or if they stop producing electronic tracks on vinyl... As long as I have two technics, a mixer and two records with a killer break, I'll beat juggle untill the day I die, sending out thank you prayers to Cool Herc and Afrikaa Bambata.

You don't book DJ's that spin vinyl? That's a damn shame... there's some talented folks out there who can set a party into a headspin with one flick of the wrist.

Yeah, when I'm a Daddy my kid will have a record in his/her hand as soon as he/she can hold a crayon... Nah, vinyl won't die.

Eventually, It's all a matter of taste. So all y'all go on with your CDJ's and MP3's... More power to ya! If you're creative and you can move a party, then your doing right by the universe and that's the best thing there is... But I'll do it my way and never stop smiling.

BTW- Crate diggers need not despair! Look for twilight record swap at Eagles lodge in PDX. Also Crossroads music on Hawthorn in PDX, not to mention Reverb, EM, Music Millenium on Burnside, St. Vincent De Paul and any number of thrift stores... ect. ect.

[PulpMind]

You don't book DJ's that spin vinyl? That's a damn shame... there's some talented folks out there who can set a party into a headspin with one flick of the wrist.

none of them spin psytrance though =)
I should amend what I said.. If there is a dj who I would like to have play at one of my shows, who needs vinyl, then it is their responsibility to bring turntables and ensure their proper operation.

of course, if I get booked to do sound for someone else's show, then I will provide properly working Techs.. but I'm getting paid to deal with that shit =P

Shu'kran,
- Jesiah

[electrokid]

Originally posted by djsadiablo
lap toppers aren't djs

lap toppers that utilize mixing software in unison w/ a midi controller are mixing music. granted they are not using "disks" they are mixing music in much of the same way.

[dr_babbit]

i just like mixing records....

[Jowell]

none of them spin psytrance though =)


We have a very talented dj that spins psytrance and he uses VINYL!!!

Microdot can be found at Pussycatproductions.com

[digibag]

Originally posted by solenoid
I walked by Djangos (downtown pdx) today on my lunch break from werrk and it WAS CLOSED!! Okay, this is a used rec shop I shopped at probably 1-2 times a month from 1983-1990 and then almost weekly 1991-(last week). This is some serious shizzit!!! I knocked on the window (all the recs, cds, dvds and furniture were GONE) and one of the old employees was in there sweeping bits of trash. We talked about the fate of other rec stores and agreed that ebay was the way to go to buy rare vinyl, unless you wanted to wait for a 'deal' on something. Django's is only running an ebay-based resale office now.

There ends 20+ years of my crate digging there! r.i.p.

solenoid

I wanted to point out a new site, www.digicrate.com , at Digicrate you can auction off your vinyl and upload mp3 previews of the tracks. We are hoping the community enjoys the mp3 addition.

[digibag]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bonoboboogie
[B]I love vinyl. It's warm, it sounds great, it's tactile, it's sexy.

>>>But as digital formats become more prevalent, I wonder if it has a future.



We see our new site www.digibag.com to be an aid for producers to license their tracks to vinyl. They can put up their tracks, start see an economy immediaetly, and then have them picked up for the 1000 +or- vinyl run. We are also going to be pressing to vinyl our top sellers each month, or if we think that a track would sound hot pressed up we'll do it.

Dufflebag Recordings is still going to release vinyl just like before. We love vinyl but also like lighter record bags. WAV and AIF files are good for DJ's posture.

[corbettfields]

Originally posted by Jowell



We have a very talented dj that spins psytrance and he uses VINYL!!!

Microdot can be found at Pussycatproductions.com


Tiesto

[DJ KURO]

Last Friday at Lucky Charms 3 Darude had the place really bumpin and the crowd was really hype, but to my surprise no vinyl was used. His set was comprised of cds (and possibly a laptop, im not really certain on that though) So who really cares if a dj uses vinyl or not. If you are on the dance floor and the dj is mixing so well that you can hardly contain yourself from dancing are you going to stand there with your arms folded and a frown on your face because he is using cds? I would hope not because you would look like a damn fool just standing there while everyone else is having a good time. Mixing hasn’t been around that long and technology changes over time. Some people choose to practice the art of the old and some people choose to advance and evolve their art. Neither path is wrong and both are right as long as the original intentions are realized.

[DJ KURO]

but I do support vinyl ! support your local record store , the art need to be preserved and passed on to generations to come.

[corbettfields]

Originally posted by DJ KURO
Last Friday at Lucky Charms 3 Darude had the place really bumpin and the crowd was really hype, but to my surprise no vinyl was used. His set was comprised of cds (and possibly a laptop, im not really certain on that though) So who really cares if a dj uses vinyl or not. If you are on the dance floor and the dj is mixing so well that you can hardly contain yourself from dancing are you going to stand there with your arms folded and a frown on your face because he is using cds? I would hope not because you would look like a damn fool just standing there while everyone else is having a good time. Mixing hasn’t been around that long and technology changes over time. Some people choose to practice the art of the old and some people choose to advance and evolve their art. Neither path is wrong and both are right as long as the original intentions are realized.

In last 2 weeks I witnessed Freaky Chakra and Kris Moon blow dance floors up using Laptops.... f'n awesome!

who cares how it's done!

[dr_babbit]

Originally posted by DJ KURO
Last Friday at Lucky Charms 3 Darude had the place really bumpin and the crowd was really hype, but to my surprise no vinyl was used. His set was comprised of cds (and possibly a laptop, im not really certain on that though) So who really cares if a dj uses vinyl or not. If you are on the dance floor and the dj is mixing so well that you can hardly contain yourself from dancing are you going to stand there with your arms folded and a frown on your face because he is using cds? I would hope not because you would look like a damn fool just standing there while everyone else is having a good time. Mixing hasn’t been around that long and technology changes over time. Some people choose to practice the art of the old and some people choose to advance and evolve their art. Neither path is wrong and both are right as long as the original intentions are realized.

last time i heard darude mix he used CDs. i wasn't there, it was streaming audio, it was live. know how i know he used CDs? BECAUSE THEY KEPT FUCKING SKIPPING. yea too bad for him...:rolleyes: thats great he didn't have any tracks skip or anything, but there's just something lame to me about mixing with all CDs, takes away the turntablism aspect of it

[Lizard King]

Originally posted by theperfectcyn


same goes for chaos existence....

If ya ask 'em real nice though, I'm sure Helen & Mauricio will let you come over and look through wax at their new pad ... :)

[Jowell]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Jowell



We have a very talented dj that spins psytrance and he uses VINYL!!!

Microdot can be found at Pussycatproductions.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Tiesto


Do the words "Tiesto" and "Psytrance" even belong in the same post???

[PulpMind]

Originally posted by Jowell
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Jowell



We have a very talented dj that spins psytrance and he uses VINYL!!!

Microdot can be found at Pussycatproductions.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------







Do the words "Tiesto" and "Psytrance" even belong in the same post???

seriously... I was wondering the same thing... even PvD has made an actual psytrance mix (though it seriously sucks and is not psy worthy).. but Tiesto doesn't even produce decent crappy trance =P (let alone psy)
*******
of course, yes, there are a couple psy DJs that have grown up sheltered and use vinyl ;) my friend Sean aka Soma is one of them... but you have to understand that vinyl really has *zero* history in the world of psytrance... spinning psy vinyl (which I once did), is a personal choice, and not standard anywhere in the world of psytrance. As such, if a DJ wants to spin vinyl and I don't have the resources at hand for one of my parties, they'll have to take responsibility for ensuring they'll be able to play. =) consider it an open-source community.

/end ramble

Shu'kran,
- Jesiah

[MarilenMonro]

Originally posted by pulse_/\/
I never want to hear anyone say that vinyl is going out again..........
my verdict vinyl is here to stay and if its not im gonna be the only one using it.

you wont be the only one - im gonna be buried with my techs :) im all for new-age technology, and futuristic ways of thinking.. but i still like to be ORIGINAL.. .. .. .. .. "Disk Jockey" has (since the creation of the word) ALWAYS been someone who plays <RECORDS>
I AM a DJ, not a producer....
....never claimed to be... and i like to play other ppls music :) haha :)

[djryan]

so i guess pvd and bt aren't dj's anymore--according to some of you guys. laptopers arn't dj's, their real musicians

[unknownp0et]

Originally posted by djryan
so i guess pvd and bt aren't dj's anymore--according to some of you guys. laptopers arn't dj's, their real musicians

Ouch!

Watch that "real musician" stuff... I think you'd be hard pressed to call a turntabilst like Q-bert (tending to work primarily with vinyl) anything but a "real musician".

When you make a mix as a DJ: if, in the course of your mix, you have created a blend of sounds that are unique from the tracks you are mixing had they been played seperatly, then you have commited an act of "real" musicianship.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the medium!

In terms of vinyl... I'm a junky. If I can use the medium to create a unique sound, then I am a musician. Right now, I'm simply a neophyte with high hopes.

(my duece lincolns)

-P

[dj jakub]

I have got to say, going to europe a month ago opened my eyes to the pioneer cdjs. They are pretty much a standard everywhere in europe right now, from small clubs, to largeones like Vega in Copenhagen (supposedly one of the top ten clubs in the world). Djs seem to use them 60% of the time switching between cds and vinyl. I was hella impressed with the abilty of the djs to mix and utilize effects like most people don't do in the states, droping in loops like crazy. I ended up picking up a cdj800 after coming back, and I can't say enough about how much i love it. In fact i'm probablly going to pick up another one.

Yeaht there is that whole mystik of playing on vinyl, but a lot of it is hyped up overrated 10% of the people who actually know what is going on at the decks, the rest of the people in clubs or raves have no clue other than they know there is a person contolling the music up there. There are also so many advantages to moving to cdrs at least partially due to the ability of remixing your own stuff and dropping beats you make.

It will be interesting what the next 10 years will bring for sure..