Why do people like Trance so much but sleep on Techno and other underground forms?

[Amanita]

There is good and bad in any style of music. Trance just has MORE bad then good after all these years. Still there is good trance to be found (If your tastes swing that direction) and I find I like it best when blended with psychedelic and electro influences. I think It's important to understand that most people (98% of the world) could not tell your electro from your techno from your trance anyhow. Its all 4/4. Its all bleeps and bloops. So with that in mind if someone likes Trance then you have them allready in the door. It takes time but I find most people who can groove to EDM can be brought to enjoy any of the REALLY good producers. Genres may be more important on the dancfloor or with crews but when a track shines, it shines and people know.

Just like 99% of Rock and Roll is crapola there still are gems to be found.

There still is very good underground trance music. You just have to scratch hard. (accounting for tastes, some people just do not enjoy a 4/4 kick)

The styles continue to blend and the really good artists will take the best from all of it and will be blind to things like genre names and conventions and just make good tunes.


One trance act I love shure knows how to make techno
Son Kite
Or
Minilogue

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u46eaeAfeqw

[GooglyMoose]

It's a pretty easy answer when you boil it down. Trance is more accessable. You can purchase it at Wal-Mart. Most pop remixes are centered in a trance direction. The vocals in trance give it a type of radio appeal that a 37 minute Villalobos record just dosn't have. Not a lot of techno events are 18+ which is horribly detrimental to getting new people into the music. Trance has radio play. Techno dosn't.

Now not to take a dump on trance but a lot of what I hear just dosn't do anything for me. I'm tired of 80s rehashes, cheesy vocals, and pop remixes. It injects this level of cheese into the genre that I don't enjoy. I do hear quite a bit I like though. Artists like James Holden (and almost all of the Border Community crew), Gabriel & Dresden (when they stear clear of Dust In The Wind covers), Luke Dizerek, and James Zabelia who consitently blow me away.

But when it comes down to it, I love techno.

[electrosect]

thank you Amanita
I am digging this!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u46eaeAfeqw

[Amanita]

Originally posted by electrosect
thank you Amanita
I am digging this!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u46eaeAfeqw

Nice, glad you like it. Check out the vinyl shop or beatport, almost everything that Minilogue touches is worth picking up (some is more Tech-house).

You can download a free live set here.

http://www.minilogue.com/

Super talented guys.

[B_tech]

Originally posted by Vinyl Diva
For me, progressive trance is what people have learned to identify "rave music" with.

"Progressive Trance" is redundant and annoys the shit outta me. Trance is by definition, a music that progresses until you reach a trance-like state. All the more reason that anthem trance is a blasphemy, IMO. newbs don't get into techno because 'it's boring'... but that's because they're not used to or understanding that the music's nuances are what make techno and electro so amazing.

techno > trance

[Mi'ka]

It's interesting to me that people still have the same mainstream idea of what trance is. I understand that for the most part what you hear of trance is mainstream if you look at "top djs." I really don't think it's a true reflection of where trance is going. In all honesty, I can't stand that stuff either.

However, there's an underground trance genre that doesn't get much exposure...at least here in the NW. TECH-TRANCE. It's a mix of trance and tech sounds together. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tech_trance Unfortunately there's only a few of us that actually play it. It's much different than what you think of when you hear the word, "trance." Lots of tech sounds, rarely any vocals....check out dj's like Mark Sherry or Sander Van Doom. Honestly, as one that plays trance I am embarrased to go to a trance night and hear someone bust out Sandstorm. Things progress...yes, even trance.

Also, trance isn't the only genre that I play...I actually play minimal and minimal tech house more often (think, James Zabiela!) and yes, techno.

I think as people have already mentioned, every genre has its good and bad. It's always silly to say one is better than the other. There is no "supreme" genre. If we didn't have one genre then you may not have the next progression or subgenre in which it was derived from. I always strive to keep an open mind and find out what's new in a genre.

[Amanita]

Ah SpiceLab. ! How I miss thee..

[B_tech]

OK, 'tech-trance' is just another sub-genre label for DJs to break the stigma associated with playing 'trance'.

Because the anthemic vocal-laden trance music is what people associate the 'trance' genre with, many, including trance DJs themselves, forget that 'tech-trance' is the EXACT same sound of trance before the anthem phenomenon. Anyone that collected trance records in the early 90s (91 to 94) knows that you can hear the same sounds on old Rampant releases that you hear from DJs that tout themselves as 'tech-trance' DJs. Same product, but in a new shiny box.

That's not to say the sound is poor, bad or anything negative, but the idea that a new genre name has to be created, when it's been around for close to 15 years is a tad offensive to people (including myself) that have been collecting vinyl for longer than that.

[Amanita]

where do you think new genre names come from?

[LetsGoOutside]

some of my own theories...

there was this stuff we called trance a long time ago that was awesome. resistance d, ben neill, spacetime continuum, freaky chakra, air liquide, etc. one day in late 1995, i noticed people were now calling proressive techno "trance". i was very confused. and still am a bit. regardless, they've won. so with that out of the way, let's get it clear that i'm talking about the kind of trance you can buy at sam goody; that's played on the radio and in big "dj concerts".

i've noticed two trends in "actually liking trance". the first and less common of the two, is that people think trance is "pretty". some people are just suckers for arpeggios. the more blatant and fluttery, the better. it makes them think of the fairy princess shooting lasers at unicorns and shit (ladies). or like when they beat their first rpg (bruthas!). it's super cheesy, it's happy. it almost always lacks any true artistic merit, and some people just relish in the cheesy happiness. more power to 'em.

the other motivators behind liking trance are, basically as sean said; "drugs and ignorance". but it's even more pathetic than that. let's do ignorance first.

when people like tiesto, they can never just say, "i like tiesto", they will tell you, "tiesto is the best dj in the world." so i've asked a few people, "how do you know? how many other djs have you heard?" the answers are a consistent, "everyone says he is" and "not many". now why the heck would so many people who have heard so few djs make such a claim? get on google and do exact phrase searches (in quotes) for things like:

"the best dj in the world"
"the greatest dj in the world"
"world's best dj"

...and even the redundant...

"world's best dj in the world"

it's tiesto at the top every time. it's pure marketing. it's not necessarily polls or discussion groups, it's sites that are selling cds, dvds, etc. if you tell people who want to jump in the dance music and nightlife scene that so-and-so is the best dj in the world, then you've saved them a lot of time. i've actually had a girl tell me, "why would i need to listen to any other dj? tiesto is the best in the world, so he's the only one i listen to". of course, she's never opened the pandora's box of countless djs for comparison. ignorance is bliss.

drugs. and not just drugs but the whole dark package. over a decade ago, when raves were all over the news as these horrible underground drugfests, it attracted the attention of a good portion of mainstream society. people wanted to say, "yeah, i've been to a rave", like they were so cool, hip, and/or badass. all those who weren't truly in the underground started to emulate what they'd seen on the news in clubs and legal venues. and it was a relatively sanitized version in that people would wear very clean clothes and use their drugs in the bathroom. this thing that imitated the underground scene slowly evolved into this mutant, naive, socially acceptable trace of the rave scene. now there is carl jr's commercial featuring a packed club with blaring trance that runs until dawn -- when they suggest you should get a club sandwich after partying all night.

they took the word "trance" from the underground, applied the name to progressive techno, and have run with it as their anthem since. trance is the mainstream's theme to going out in your douchebag suit, looking "cool", and partying. it's the soundtrack to an image that many people are trying to make their own. when your sunglasses are on at night, you've got three buttons off the top, you're on that fourth jagerbomb, and you're slipping the ghb left and right, goddammit, if trance isn't playing in the background, then you are *not* living la vida loca!

i really feel that for most people that like trance, it's not the music itself they're into -- it's the image, the concept -- the complete douchebag package.

the great thing about trance, though -- it keeps these fuckers away from us.

[tr0llaccount]

heh, where i live trance is called techno, dnb is called techno, house is called techno, electro is called techno, breaks are called techno, techno is called techno, idm is called techno...

[Mad Vinnie]

Stop bitching and just fucking listen to your favorite music. Geez.

ps. Techno is better

[B_tech]

Originally posted by Amanita
where do you think new genre names come from?

I think I covered that already:

...'tech-trance' is just another sub-genre label for DJs to break the stigma associated with playing 'trance'. .

It's the same thing as when people came up with the bullshit 'Progressive House' moniker; it's slowed down trance and the vast majority of the people that play it USED to be trance DJs. Since 'trance' is such a dirty word to many old farts like me, they want to distance themselves from the foolish shit they liked in the past or they want to present the image that they're grown up and 'more experienced' now. Little do they know it's the same shit some of us used to play in the early 90s and you can still find the records from FFRR, Tribal UK and other house labels. Old sound, new, shiny package.

[Mi'ka]

Wow, you guys are some biased folks. lol

I don't own one track by tiesto, I'm not a candy kid, nor do I do drugs, I'm not a top 40 chick. I don't play it because it sounds "pretty." On top of that I'm not embarrased to play or out trying to give trance a better name annnnnnd I was around during the 90's, as I'll be 29 this year.

I'm just stating there's more to trance these days than what you're claiming. And as for people listening to trance staying away from "Tech Heads" that's just silly...because I have love for both...in fact minimal tech is my all time fav genre and what you'll find me playing out most of the time. Ask me about producers in techno and I'll give you plenty of my favorites.

Basically what I'm saying to the starter of this thread is that *I* personally appreciate both techno and trance.

[PDX Klubkid]

It's either really repatitive or too minimal and boring to rock a really big crowd. Trance seems to have more energy and it is less experimental sounding. Just a matter of opinion. I like Trance some like Techno. Not all Trance is cheesy either kinda like not all tevhno is repatitive.

[B_tech]

Originally posted by PDX Klubkid
It's either really repatitive or too minimal and boring to rock a really big crowd. Trance seems to have more energy and it is less experimental sounding. Just a matter of opinion. I like Trance some like Techno. Not all Trance is cheesy either kinda like not all tevhno is repatitive.

ehhh minimal and boring to you, but there are parties in Amsterdam and Berlin that are straight up drummin techno that draw 30K people +. As for stateside: Decibel, MOVEment, Mutek and DEMF.. all are pure techno and all draw tens of thousands.

Again, the key to enjoying techno is enjoying the subtle nuances, changes and added sounds. People don't like minimal, because they're too used to listening to loooooooooooong builds (that go nowhere) and vocal hooks, whereas minimal and techno rely on pure drum/percussion elements and how they're layered (or not layered, for minimal). For me, the simplistic, formulaic sounds in EDM are boring.. give me music that makes me think when I listen.

Mi'ka- I also appreciate trance & techno... but PSY/Goa and old trance (pre-95).

[Dj L.I.T]

I agree with amanita, u dig hard you find the good stuff. I personally ignore anybody's idiotic comments about a genre they have no knowledge how it evolved or how it sounds today.
LOL! and real Trance djs and producers, (which by the way make not only Tech and full-on prog but also Electro, Tech House and minimal and Vice versa), laugh when you say Tiesto. He became a mainstream joke since 2003. And to all genre haters in general, do ur Homework first and respect people's tastes, it's freaking music, nothing is absolute or defined as the "dope shit". Enjoy ur shit and keep to urself.

[Mi'ka]

Originally posted by B_tech

Mi'ka- I also appreciate trance & techno... but PSY/Goa and old trance (pre-95).

I totally understand what you're saying...hell go back to the beginning of trance on beatport and the majority that is considered "trance" is actually what we call "psytrance" today. (I must say what I consider tech trance doesn't sound anything like this!)

Also, I can see how some would say minimal is boring. I respect that...but again to each their own. To me, It's the most amazing thing I've heard in a loooooong time. Even Richie Hawtin and John Aquaviva founders of Detroit Techno have moved to minimal techno and electro.

Speaking of styles morphing...check out James Zabiela and Nic Fanciulli's collab: One plus One. It's deep prog/house, tech minimal AND minimal breaks with a splash of melodic trance elements. It's honestly heading in a direction where you can't pinpoint genres...and I'm more than slightly happy about this. This is truly an example of taking the best of all genre elements and creating something focused on the music not the genre.

[Adlib]

There's not a whole lot that I can add to this thread that hasn't already been said. People are making really good points on both sides.

I would like to reiterate Amanita's point, however. There really is a shitload of good underground trance out there, particularly the old stuff (I used to love stuff like Son Kite, Qwirk, Organic Noise and the like, btw). This is also true of every other genre of EDM and ever other genre of music generally. Most of it sucks, some of it rocks.

Also, it is true that trance has become the dominant accessible form of EDM over the last seven or eight years, but there were several other genres to do the same thing before it. Don't you guys remember how huge "big beat" (a moniker no one uses anymore) got in the mid nineties? Think about Fatboy Slim, Prodigy, Chemical Brothers, Groover Armada, Roni Size, etc. Many of them were much bigger than the biggest trance DJs are today. You of all people should know that this kind of stuff happens cyclically, Patrick... And that's not a jab at all, I just know you've been dedicated to the electronic music community for a long time.

Ironically, the genre it's clearly happening to now is electro. Electro doesn't even have clear boundaries anymore. It is influencing all styles of dance music and recruiting a whole new generation of BOTH hipster AND mainstream youth to the dance music world. In fact, I personally think it is one of the biggest contributors to the recent resurgence in EDM popularity generally.

I'd also like to differentiate between "trance" and "progressive". These labels are conflated and misused all the time. There are multiple styles of trance and multiple styles of progressive, some of which overlap, but many of which don't. I personally think it' pretty silly to put people like Nick Warren, Sasha and Digweed, Creamer and Stephane K or Guy Gerber into the same category as Oakenfold, Tiesto, Van Dyke and all those other guys. The music they make and DJ is categorically different..

And in case you couldn't tell, I like progressive a lot more than that trance shit, even though I just defended it in this post : )

[Adlib]

Originally posted by B_tech
"Progressive Trance" is redundant and annoys the shit outta me.

I think you're totally wrong, actually. Progressive does not equal trance. All styles can have a progressive element. In fact, the best emerging sound right now IMO is PROGRESSIVE techno. The folks over at Border Community (James Holden, Petter, Nathan Fake, Extrawelt) have been driving dance music in whole new directions, and pushing minimal techno to its logical progressive conclusion. I think that in about two years, this sound will be what electro is now.