Why DJ's should play for FREE

[Mantis]

First of all DJ's are not taking any financial risk by showing up to the party they have no money to lose.

Second, they are getting themselves free promotion by being there and since there name is on the flyer they are also getting FREE advertisement which I might add some businesses pay big money for since they are getting the flyer handdelivered to 10000 plus potenial clients.

Next, most DJ's don't bring in lot's of people and dollars because all of their friends are getting in for FREE so they are getting paid indirectly.

Next, 1 out of 5 promoters probably make money at these shows due to the fact that most DJ's don't understand the considerable financial commitment and are hounding them for 100 200 bucks.

Again, most of the DJ's would be doing themselves a favor by playing for free because where else could they get this crowd experience when just starting out. GET REAL if you are new the only way to get known and respect is to play for free. Unless you have some serious talent which 90% of the dj's don't.

Furthermore, when have you ever heard of a dj losing $1000 to $10000 at a party, not at all. How many times have you seen or heard of a promoter losing this amount, I can assure you many.

To Adidas,

What's up buddy, so quick to bash. I do know quite a bit about throwing parties. I have worked closely with many promoters in the scene. One party you might have memories of is SHADOWS at the old NAF studios, roughly two years ago. That was Dirty Steves DAS BEBEN first party in seattle and I had thrown a few before that. I was the one who helped Steve get his start. It has been awhile, but I am back with conviction. My production name is QUESTION PRODUCTIONS ?? Shadows was a large party and we spent $28500, of the money invested the majority was mine.

To The Liquid One,

This is true that you spend money on your tools in your trade, but so does a carpenter and he must bring them to the job and he also has many hours invested in trade skills. The carpenter probably has many thousands of dollars invested in tools and he must bring them to the work site or he is jobless most of the time or he must take a smaller amount of money.
So if a DJ was to bring his turntables speakers and amps I could see him getting paid a small amount. Most Carpenters get Max 30$ hr so I could see a DJ with many years experience getting paid something similar for bringing equipment to help complete the job. I also think that profit sharing is another great idea , depending on the pecentage and value added, it is a good way to spread the risk and responsibility.

To ILL Eeze One,

What is getting paid?

Is getting paid always mean dollars. Maybee youre doing it for the nookie. "I did it all for the nookie," Fred Durst. Maybee it's for the fame. Maybee it's for recognition. For the Feeling. For the love. For a troubled scene. When I say FREE it does'nt mean "free," nothing is for FREE everything has a cost. Some times though dollars just don't make cents (sense).

Tasty,

For the most part when I mentioned DJ's losing dollars I wasn't talking about out of staters. I did not know about these problems some DJ's are having with flying in. I did assume though that if you are flying a DJ in that they are getting paid something, or they are getting their flight and hotel paid for, which is a paid vacation. I did not hear about DJ's losing money on shipping, this is good to know for all the rest of the DJ's out there, and I would hope that if a DJ was playing out of state he would get a portion upfront. The reason that the promoter probably wasn't paying these fees for the DJ's was probably because he lost money. Thank you for your valuable insight Tasty!

[A D I D A S]

Again, most of the DJ's would be doing themselves a favor by playing for free because where else could they get this crowd experience when just starting out

there is a HUGE difference between someone just starting out, and the majority of DJs that spin out, and get paid for it.

I highly doubt you are a promoter, a respected DJ, or a venue owner, so instead of making statements regurading things you know little about, try asking a question like "why do Djs get paid to spin out?"

[Tasty]

I would like to find out what is the credibility of your statements Mantis. What is the basis for your statements? Do you have first hand experience? How did you come to these conclusions?

As I am sure there are many DJ's that would disagree with you.

From my experience (co-ordinating events, and dj'ing), both have financial risks and rewards. I would agree that the promoter has a greater financial risk in an event. However, it does not warrant your statement that DJ's should pay for free. DJ'ing is not a cheap commitment to have. I would vouchsafe for many fellow dj's in saying that we spend just as much if not more than promoters (long term). The basis behind my statement?

Well personally, I've spent countless dollars on the cost of turntables, mixers, cartridges, needles/ numerous replacement stylus, numerous replacement faders and nobs, monitors/ speakers, cords/ cables, amplifiers, headphones (numerous), cdj's, cd's, vinyl, the cost of burning demo's, material/ design for demo's, promotional costs (website, etc), traveling expenses (gas, oil, replacement parts, wear and tear on car for local gigs), the list goes on and on......

As for DJ's the notion that DJ's have no financial stake in the success or failure of an event, I find that hard to believe.

[djowns]

Actually we already lose money long before the party. Out investment is in our skill, which is many many hours of practice, and even more vinyl, not to mention gear to practice on. We generally sit around 3-4k invested, and some of us way have way more than that invested.

If what your saying is true a lighting company has nothing to lose. They didn't invest a penny into it! They already own all the gear and everything, and hey they should go purely for exposure and potential bookings for bigger shows! If your argument is wear and tear on the gear, than look at our records! They don't last forever, neither do technics and we spend many many hours practicing on them. Our mixers don't either... Neither does the lighting guys stuff.

Generally if your getting a decent DJ, your getting some one who has invested at the BAREST minimum, $1.5k, and thats if they bought all used vinyl and only enough for one set, cheap technics, and a crappy mixer. Thats just the bare minimum, and if you get the bare minimum you get the bare minimum performance. Many of us are above that and have invested far more.



So give us some fucking credit where credit is due.



If anything I understand the financial burdes of throwing a party. I've done my own events, helped with a million more, and witnessed just about every event to happen here in the past two years.

Hence I propse PROFIT sharing. Given the current times, it makes sense, and promoters making money should share their profits.

[Jmos]

Originally posted by Tasty
I would like to find out what is the credibility of your statements Mantis. What is the basis for your statements? Do you have first hand experience? How did you come to these conclusions?

No shit. These conclusions are uninformed and uneducated. Not to mention disrespectful to all you hardworking DJs out there who invest so much time and money into this.

What an ass.

[AGROculture]

For the average dj
What they make in fees as a dj doesn't begin to cover what they spend on records each month

Also when I do my bookings I make sure every dj pays for himself
For instance If I'm paying someone $250 then I'd expect them to draw about $250+ in ticket sales
Then its worth it!

DJ's gotta make a living somehow. It helps pay the bills!
If you're not making money on your parties maybe its time to reformat and stop blaming other things

[liquid_Kaos]

i Like cheese
\-_-/ jimnicirkcet

[KidKaBoom]

Originally posted by liquid_Kaos
i Like cheese
\-_-/ jimnicirkcet

Me too!
I AM BATMAN!! ^|o_o|^

KABOOM

[ILL_Eeze_One]

I have been in this game along time...to say that it doesnt cost you anything is just a NOOB statement...If you want to make it you have to risk everything....Time,Energy,Money for wax and soo on, whats starts as a kids hobby soon turns into a lifetime dream of a man. And to say a DJ doesnt need money...TOO FUNNY! You think that we live for free? Only kids can live for free...

Never the less i hope you stay in the game longer then two years and then say that djs should play for free.....

[Soma_Blue]

Originally posted by Mantis
First of all DJ's are not taking any financial risk by showing up to the party they have no money to lose.

.

Next, most DJ's don't bring in lot's of people and dollars because all of their friends are getting in for FREE so they are getting paid indirectly.

OK, dude, you are FUCKED UP. what about the $3,000+ I have invested in my records, that police-types like to CONFISCATE when a party gets shut down....& ALL of my friends pay thier way, or help set up or break down the show, so perhaps you could try generalizing a little less. I promote parties, & I rely HEAVILY on DJ's playing for free, but I also understand that if someone DOES bring a paying crowd, you should SUPPORT THIER ART by at least giving a few bucks to buy some new records...just my jaded-ass 2 cents.

[Mantis]

When you say SUPPORT THEIR ART what exactly do you mean. For the most part most DJ's I have heard lately don't do anything except for blend two songs together, in my opinion it is not art to play another ARTISTS music and call yourself an ARTIST. An artist is somebody who creates anew. If a DJ scratches well I do give due respect for that but most DJ's act like they are doing something or creating something on stage when in reality they are posing to look like they are doing more than just playing a freakin record.

[djowns]

Hey mantis, if you think talented DJ's just blend records together and it's easy why don't you come out to the cool school and get in front of a hundred or more people. Maybe you'll realize that every mistake shows, not to mention keeping a mood going is a talent not everyone is born with, and dealing with a sound system that loud isn't exactly something you learn in your bedroom.

Your one of those kids who doesn't quite realize the value of the DJ. You don't weigh out our product per say in the period of 3 minuets. Yes if you get done to a minute by minute play, we're not doing much, however what you look at is an hour long product, and than you'll see what we're good for.

Try replacing the DJ with a recorded CD if you think all we are is just a replay button. See how well people will jam out to a cd in comparison to a real DJ.

[shift.]

Damn bro , I usually stay of the board but what are you doing?

First of all DJ's are not taking any financial risk by showing up to the party they have no money to lose.

1. Come on Joe, how bout gas to get to the party, or the 5 records(at least) he/she bought stricly for the party. If you dont get paid, I'd consider those risks.

....getting the flyer handdelivered to 10000 plus potenial clients.

2. Potential clients?! Joe Straling, you know I’ve always hated it when you talk about people like they are nothing but your customer. Hand delivered is two words.

Next, most DJ's don't bring in lot's of people and dollars because all of their friends are getting in for FREE so they are getting paid indirectly.

3. Joseph Straling, a +1 on the list is hardly ALL their friends unless they have b.o. like me.

Next, 1 out of 5 promoters probably make money at these shows due to the fact that most DJ's don't understand the considerable financial commitment and are hounding them for 100 200 bucks.

4. Joe, this sentence makes no sense at all.

Again, most of the DJ's would be doing themselves a favor by playing for free because where else could they get this crowd experience when just starting out. GET REAL if you are new the only way to get known and respect is to play for free. Unless you have some serious talent which 90% of the dj's don't.

5. They could gain crowd experience at house parties when they are just ‘starting out’.
GET REAL?! Joe Straling, what, are you Dr. Phil now?

Furthermore, when have you ever heard of a dj losing $1000 to $10000 at a party, not at all. How many times have you seen or heard of a promoter losing this amount, I can assure you many.

6. That is a risk as with ANY business, let’s say Carpentry. Joe Straling, should the owner of the Carpentry company not pay his employee’s while they can gain experience.


Later Joe, why aint you called us man!

Peace out,

Dirty Steve, dasBEBEN, not DAS BEBEN.

dont get mad Joe, you know I'm just having fun!

[Advent]

Usually when a egotistical lightweight, or an over confident child talks nonsense, I just let it go. Your opinion here is just so damn imbecilic that I have to give you shit so you can learn from your mistakes.

Ok, Ok, i'll be easy on you and just say you don't know what your talking about. Perhaps you should grow up a little??

[MarQ]

DJ & Promoters are in a symbiotic relationship, we need each other. With out dj's you have nothing to promote, with out promoters we have no where to play. Both take risks, different but risks all the same. Both deserve to be compensated for there time. its just different jobs working for the same goal to make a good party.
in the emoral words of Rodney.....
why can't we all just get along?

[djowns]

Another thing is based on what you put into your "business" you can expect similiar replies.

If you've spent twenty thousand on parties you should start expecting a thousand back. If you've invested 3 thousand in gear and getting to parties and records, you can expect a hundred back.

However not everythings that predictable, hence I proposed profit sharing earlier.

[Tasty]

Originally posted by Mantis
First of all DJ's are not taking any financial risk by showing up to the party they have no money to lose....

Furthermore, when have you ever heard of a dj losing $1000 to $10000 at a party, not at all......

Actually, I know quite a few djs/ artists that have lost that amount.

Example - major breakbeat artist on the west coast, who records at the institue of gizmology, has numerous records under his belt (Botz E.P, and other diverse releases).

He's lost at least $2500 (on one gig) when a promoter did not pay him the balance of his fees, contrary to the agreement stated in his contract. This does not include the cost of shipping his equipment to the show (which was supposed to be covered by the booking fee but wasn't, because the promoter did not pay him). His list goes on and on in re: to his frustration with promoters that do not follow through on their promises, and failure to obtain secure, and legal sites for events.

Mind you, he is also taxed on income from the records, bookings, everything. I've seen the ledgers, he loses just about as much or more $ than promoters do.

Why do you think they're consistently on tour, or recording a new album, or putting out remixes?

Life and it's expenses aren't for free you know.

[theperfectcyn]

simple business:
supply & demand.
commodities elicit value.
no dj? NO PARTY.

unless you hire a tapdancer.

i have more experience in clubworld than partyworld so i must speak only to the former.
there are very few working DJs (DJs that live off their make) left in this area due to DJs that will play for free.
many of us play for nothing all the time.
many of us throw our own parties, with our own gear, with our friends, and nobody makes a bloody cent.
yes, THAT is for the love.
but i have very little love for club owners who:
~ charge what they should be charging at the door ($12 for example)
~ in a 400-600 SOLD OUT venue ($12x500 = $6,000)
~ make a crapload @ the bar (500ppl x $6 a cocktail x 3per guest = $9,000)
~ door $6,000 + bar $9,000 = $15,000 income in ONE NIGHT

.... and pay their locals $100.

i don't care HOW MUCH the headliner costs. booking headliners that can garner close to five figures is just such a huge risk. i know every night doesn't go off like this. but the ones that do, well... i guess i feel like the locals deserve 1% of the take. and 1% of $15,000 = $150.

so there ya have it. do the math.
party throwers - are your DJS worth less than one percent?
man. it's just a token when you think of it that way.

edited to add: i'd just like to say that we worked with a really great party promoter this weekend, edotdj. also know as eric of goodbeat. we didn't expect ANYTHING for playing his party and we got paid more than enough, with intentions of more if the attendance reached a certain point. above and beyond the call of duty.

[Tasty]

Originally posted by theperfectcyn
simple business:
supply & demand.
commodities elicit value.
no dj? NO PARTY.

unless you hire a tapdancer.

i have more experience in clubworld than partyworld so i must speak only to the former.
there are very few working DJs (DJs that live off their make) left in this area due to DJs that will play for free.
many of us play for nothing all the time.
many of us throw our own parties, with our own gear, with our friends, and nobody makes a bloody cent.
yes, THAT is for the love.
but i have very little love for club owners who:
~ charge what they should be charging at the door ($12 for example)
~ in a 400-600 SOLD OUT venue ($12x500 = $6,000)
~ make a crapload @ the bar (500ppl x $6 a cocktail x 3per guest = $9,000)
~ door $6,000 + bar $9,000 = $15,000 income in ONE NIGHT

.... and pay their locals $100.

i don't care HOW MUCH the headliner costs. booking headliners that can garner close to five figures is just such a huge risk. i know every night doesn't go off like this. but the ones that do, well... i guess i feel like the locals deserve 1% of the take. and 1% of $15,000 = $150.

so there ya have it. do the math.
party throwers - are your DJS worth less than one percent?
man. it's just a token when you think of it that way.

edited to add: i'd just like to say that we worked with a really great party promoter this weekend, edotdj. also know as eric of goodbeat. we didn't expect ANYTHING for playing his party and we got paid more than enough, with intentions of more if the attendance reached a certain point. above and beyond the call of duty.

AGREED!

[yogi]

I feel like its a group effort. First of all the Headliner has to get paid. No matter what. If the party does good, And the promoter makes cash than kick everybody down for helping out. If the promoter loses cash than i feel the Dj's should understand. Why hurt the promoter more than his lost. Give him a chance to try again. Not all promoters get Bar sales. Busines is not simple.